[Foundation-l] Seeking clarification

Aphaia aphaia at gmail.com
Tue Jan 22 12:07:07 UTC 2008 

On Jan 22, 2008 8:27 PM, Jason Safoutin <jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org> wrote:
> Correct me if I am wrong. But does the front page of Wikiversity say
> that the project i for teachers students and researchers? If so, then
> your argument is false.
>
> No WMF project should, EVER, compete with one another. If we do, we may
> as well take the collaborative scheme, and throw it out of the window too.

I confess what you would like to mean. WikiEducator is not a WMF project.
Or am I confused?

> This "competition" goes against the WMF's mission.
>
> Jason Safoutin (DragonFire1024)
> >
> > Message: 6
> > Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 07:36:15 +0100
> > From: "Gerard Meijssen" <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> > Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Seeking clarification
> > To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"
> >       <foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> > Message-ID:
> >       <41a006820801212236v70332058qdf7cf18df083a835 at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
>
> >
> > Hoi,
> > In principle I would agree that the WMF could build all kinds of everything.
> > In practice the WMF has not been able to implement a project like Single
> > User Login in almost two year now I think it is. Practically it is either a
> > really dedicated and/or talented person that gets something organised or it
> > just does not happen.
> >
> > Also in the Open Source world it is a given that competing projects
> > invigorate each other because of their perceived competition. This may seem
> > rather Darwinistic but hey it seems to work for them so why not for us ? The
> > approach taken by Wikiversity and Wikieducator is markedly different.
> > Wikieducator is very much organised for and by people who are working in the
> > educational field while Wikiversity is not. These projects occupy different
> > niches, and therefore there is not so much competition after all.
> > Thanks,
> >    GerardM
> >
> > On Jan 22, 2008 6:42 AM, Jason Safoutin <jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Why should Wikiversity or Wikispecies or any other WMF project have to
> >> compete with another WMF project, with basically the same goals?
> >>
> >> I am all for free collaborative content, but not if it means WMF
> >> projects have to compete against one another. Would that not defy the
> >> meaning of collaborative? Why not take what WMF has already and make it
> >> better. We know they have the capabilities to make new things like a
> >> collaborative video program...so why not?
> >>
> >> Point is the projects are all supposed to be part of a community of
> >> collaborators. We are supposed to be part of a foundation that supports
> >> that. Not driving the communities apart.
> >>
> >> Jason Safoutin
> >>
> >>> I understood Erik was asked to join their advisory board since he was
> >>> a Board of Trustees at WMF and both organizations were largely in a
> >>> same mind (free content for educational purpose). I think Erik said
> >>> something at the announcement of his appointment to Deputy ED  but not
> >>> dig the archive right now (the network is a bit slow for me now).
> >>>
> >>> Btw I have no reason for making a panic -- sorry but it was my first
> >>> impression in this thread, so sorry if I just misunderstood your
> >>> reaction --- even if WikiEducator was a competitor of Wikiversity. Is
> >>> our world so small not as to allow two or more online educational
> >>> projects mainly for adult or in an advanced level? In real life we
> >>> have several high educational institutions. In several layers they
> >>> compete each others but still there are also collaborations in many
> >>> levels: both officially and informally they share lectures, books and
> >>> other educational resources and do research jointly etc. Can it be
> >>> this case or is there no such room for online projects at all?
> >>>
> >>> On Jan 22, 2008 10:21 AM, Nathan <nawrich at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> For a conflict of interest, interests must conflict. How do the
> >>>> interests of Wikimedia and WikiEducator conflict? That isn't clear to
> >>>> me. The goal is the same - the proliferation of easily accessible
> >>>> knowledge. Ideally, they could exchange content so that neither has
> >>>> anything the other lacks (depending on licenses, which I don't know
> >>>> the details of).  FWIW, Erik is the deputy executive director.
> >>>>
> >>>> Nathan
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jan 21, 2008 8:12 PM, Jason Safoutin <jason.safoutin at wikinewsie.org>
> >>>>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> If I have to be the first to say it, I will. I know some of these
> >>>>>
> >> links
> >>
> >>>>> have been passed around here before, but for reference I will ad them,
> >>>>> and then some.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> It has become clear to me, at least a few things anyway. One bing that
> >>>>> there is clearly a conflict of interest on Erik Moeller's part. He is
> >>>>> currently on the advisory board for Wikieducator:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     * http://www.wikieducator.org/WikiEducator:Advisory_Board
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "/WikiEducator's Interim International Advisory Board was assembled by
> >>>>> project founder Wayne Mackintosh to serve as a means of involving the
> >>>>> community until the project has grown large enough to elect a Board
> >>>>> through democratic means. Once 2,500 users have joined the wiki,
> >>>>> elections will be held to select a successor Board./", says the
> >>>>>
> >> website.
> >>
> >>>>> Not only that, but Kultra has some involvement with Wikieducator, and
> >>>>>
> >> if
> >>
> >>>>> I am not mistaken Wikieducator is slated to be on WMF servers:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     * _ Kaltura Collaborative Video Editing Extension Enabled:_
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >> http://groups.google.com/group/wikieducator/browse_thread/thread/345c056f8304e25c
> >>
> >>>>> The way I see it, Wikieducator is the same thing that Wikiversity is.
> >>>>> Wikieducator is not to compete with Wikiversity, it is a means to IMO
> >>>>> eventually replace it. Don't believe me?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wikieducator:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     * *planning* of education projects linked with the development of
> >>>>>       free content <http://freedomdefined.org/Definition>;
> >>>>>     * *development* of free content on Wikieducator
> >>>>>       <http://www.wikieducator.org/Content> for e-learning;
> >>>>>     * work on building *open education resources* (OERs) on *how* to
> >>>>>       create OERs.
> >>>>>     * networking on *funding proposals
> >>>>>       <http://www.wikieducator.org/Metawikieducator>* developed as
> >>>>>
> >> free
> >>
> >>>>>       content.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Wikiversity: /*Wikiversity* is a community for the creation of
> >>>>>
> >> learning
> >>
> >>>>> activities and development of free learning materials. Students and
> >>>>> teachers
> >>>>> <http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Wikiversity:Wikiversity_teachers> are
> >>>>> invited to join the project as collaborators in teaching, learning,
> >>>>>
> >> and
> >>
> >>>>> research. Wikiversity strives to be an open and vibrant community
> >>>>>
> >> where
> >>
> >>>>> you can explore and learn about your personal interests. Wikiversity
> >>>>> hosts and develops free learning materials for all age groups. Please
> >>>>> participate and help build collaborative learning projects and
> >>>>> communities; at Wikiversity we learn by doing
> >>>>> <http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Portal:Education/Wikiversity_model>,
> >>>>>
> >> we
> >>
> >>>>> learn by editing./
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So...what is different about the two? Nothing...other than a few more
> >>>>> bells and whistles.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> We all heard about the wonderful amazing and quite eye catiching, The
> >>>>> Encyclopedia Of Life - A collaborative encyclopedia to contain the
> >>>>> entire earth's species....I thought that's what Wikispecies is? Not to
> >>>>> mention that Erik is on their Institutional Council, which he also
> >>>>> represents the Wikimedia Foundation. Again not another competition,
> >>>>>
> >> but
> >>
> >>>>> if you have been to their website, you will see what I mean about
> >>>>> "replacement".
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     * http://www.eol.org/home.html
> >>>>>     * http://blog.valuewiki.com/2007/05/09/encyclopedia-of-life/
> >>>>>     * http://www.eol.org/partners.html#p3
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So let cut to the chase. What is going on in WMF? Why is the Executive
> >>>>> Director involved with projects that are clearly designed to either
> >>>>> replace or out do WMF projects? Why is the WMF involved at all? And
> >>>>>
> >> why,
> >>
> >>>>> is the Board of Trustees, the group the communities elected, not
> >>>>>
> >> saying
> >>
> >>>>> anything? Whats going on and who is making these decisions?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In all respects, we have to right to know at least some things. As it
> >>>>> stands, Kaltura is directly endorsing the WMF on its front page:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.kaltura.com/devwiki/index.php/Main_Page
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "/As recently announced
> >>>>> <
> >>>>>
> >> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Wikipedia_Invites_Users_to_Take_Part_in_Open%2C_Collaborative_Video_Experiment
> >>
> >>> ,
> >>>
> >>>>> the Wikimedia Foundation and Kaltura have begun a process aimed at
> >>>>> bringing rich-media collaboration to Wikipedia and other wiki
> >>>>>
> >> websites.
> >>
> >>>>> The vision of this project is to enable the Wikipedia community to
> >>>>> further enhance and enrich Wikipedia articles with rich-media
> >>>>>
> >> content./"
> >>
> >>>>> They mention Wikipedia three times in just the first paragraph...
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So who is in charge now????????????
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jason Safoutin
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> foundation-l mailing list
> >>>>> foundation-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> >>>>> Unsubscribe: http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
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> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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> > End of foundation-l Digest, Vol 46, Issue 154
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