[Foundation-l] The problem with Flash

[Chad]

No, I think he's pointing out the issues with this that state why we
shouldn't use it now;
this has agreement, I believe. Not to mention, until Adobe releases
those patents or
makes Flash an open standard, there will never be a 100% (that's
gratis AND libre)
implementation of it, ever, as Ben said.

However, the question still remains: why is it the WMF's job to
provide a PR boost
for a (seemingly) startup? Wouldn't we get further by helping Gnash directly?

Somebody knows somebody, that much appears clear to me now.

Chad

On Jan 20, 2008 12:47 PM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi,
> Nice but what is your point and how does it relate to what is the issue? The
> issue is that a framework is being developed. It needs open source
> components to make it work and gnash has been mentioned as one component in
> all this that needs work. What you describe is exactly the reason why work
> needs to be done to make this type of content work well on Linux
>
> So you describe that things do not work well. You provide the exact
> arguments why something needs to be done ... So you are in favour of the
> proposed collabaration... GREAT
> Thanks,
>      GerardM
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2008 6:32 PM, Ben McIlwain <cydeweys at gmail.com> wrote:
>
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> > Brion Vibber wrote:
> >
> > > In many cases that'll cover the same ground as non-free formats; the
> > > main exceptions are for patent-encumbered standards (eg, the MPEG family
> > > - MP3, AAC, H.264, etc) and widely-deployed proprietary formats that
> > > have been reverse-engineered by FOSS developers (eg, Flash).
> >
> > On the subject of Flash, I think it might help to relate my experiences
> > so that everyone on this list knows how deficient it is on free software
> > platforms.  (This isn't directed to you Brion, as that'd just be
> > preaching to the choir :-P )
> >
> > I run GNU/Linux on my laptop.  Pretty much everything works and I'm able
> > to do everything I do in Windows, except Flash.  First of all, the free
> > software Flash alternatives simply aren't there yet.  They aren't good
> > enough for everyday use.  And even if they were, they still wouldn't be
> > free, because they're infringing on various patents that Adobe no doubt
> > holds.  And the free software stuff isn't good enough to create Flash
> > either, so you still need to pay the tax in the form of the creator
> > program (which as far as I know doesn't run on GNU/Linux).  You can see
> > why this is unacceptable.
> >
> > Even the official Adobe Flash player plugin for Mozilla Firefox on
> > GNU/Linux is deficient.  It's treated like a third-rate product by
> > Adobe, sometimes seeing major version updates many months after the
> > Windows plugin is released.  In the mean time, new Flash content that
> > depends on the new features simply won't work.  And the plugin itself is
> > just bad.  It frequently crashes Firefox, some of its functionality
> > plain old doesn't work, etc.  And nevermind that it's not free in any
> > sense of the word except gratis; it's all binary, the source isn't
> > available, so it's all entirely anti-libre.
> >
> > - From where I stand, Flash isn't even an option to be considered in
> > fulfilling the Foundation's mission statement of "developing educational
> > content under a free license or in the public domain".  It won't even
> > run on a completely free system, and it will only run poorly on a
> > partially free system (giving in and installing their binary-only
> > plugin).  It is, simply, not what we are looking for.
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