[Foundation-l] Allemanic and Albanian - conditional approval for Gheg

[Ilario Valdelli]

I agree and in this case read the page: http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/scope.asp#M

At point 1 you can read: "There is one variety that is more developed
and that tends to be used for wider communication..."
At point 2 you can read: "There is a common written form used for
multiple closely-related languages"
The point 3 is not applicable to Albanian

The use of "metalanguage" is another forcing mode to justify some
cohabitations of languages.

The Albanian is a *written* language to use instead of:

    * Arbëreshë Albanian [aae]
    * Arvanitika Albanian [aat]
    * Gheg Albanian [aln]
    * Tosk Albanian [als]

but in any case points 1 and 2 are not fully appliable because these
three languages are not "closely-related" (point 2) and Gheg seems to
become a written language in Kossovo, for example.

In any case Tosk speakers will use Albanian to write, Gheg is becoming
a written language (and probably it will have an indipendent evolution
with an increase of written uses), Arvanitika or Arbëreshë speakers
probably have a spoken language so different from Tosk that they will
look for a different written way or in any case for a different
dictionary.

IMHO the differentiation between Tosk and Albanian will drive the
Wikipedia's communities to ask for an integration in the future
because the differences are not much.

In any case I agree that the rule for the DNS name must be well
defined. If any Wikipedia has got this denomination: http:// + ISO
code+ wikipedia.org, there is not a justification for a different way.

Ilario


On Jan 4, 2008 4:17 PM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi,
> If you want to know what Ethnologue has to say about Albanian read
> http://www.sil.org/iso639-3/documentation.asp?id=sqi The process that came
> to differentiate Albanian into a macro language and its four languages is
> formal and public.
> Thanks,
>     GerardM
>
>
>
> On Jan 4, 2008 3:04 PM, Ilario Valdelli <valdelli at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This strange Ethnologue... What is Albanian? What is Ghegh? What is Tosk?
> >
> > Standard Albanian seems to be a "revised form of Tosk", in any case a
> > written Tosk.
> >
> > Will we have a Wikipedia written in Tosk? I don't think so. Will we
> > have a spoken Wikipedia in Tosk? I don't think so.
> >
> > If you read in detail Ethnologue
> > (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=als) you can see
> > some confusion: "Language use -> Official language. It is used in
> > schools." I know that Albanian is the official language of Albania and
> > not the Tosk. Is there some little usual confusion of Ethnologue?
> >
> > Il could be a misundersting but about the Gheg
> > (http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=aln) I can read:
> > "Language use -> Official regional language in Kossovo. Vigorous.
> > Books are published in Gheg. Restrictions on Albanian at Kossovo's
> > university since 1990."
> >
> > It's not a misunderstanding for Ethnologue Albanian=Tosk. But the ISO
> > code are generated without any consideration and we have magically als
> > for Tosk and sqi for Albanian. I am a little bit confused: the
> > official language of Albania is it the Tosk or the Albanian, or the
> > two languages are the same language?
> >
> > IMHO sqi=als and Albanian Wikipedia is sufficient to include Tosk.
> >
> > Ilario
> >
> > On Jan 4, 2008 11:48 AM, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > Hoi,
> > > Currently the Allemannic Wikipedia is known under the name
> > als.wikipedia.org.
> > > This code is wrong as the code is reserved for Tosk, the main Albanian
> > > language. We are about to give Gheg, another Albanian language
> > conditional
> > > approval. As it will be hard to explain to some why we give Tosk
> > conditional
> > > approval, it is decidedly awkward that Allemanic is using the wrong
> > code.
> > >
> > > I want to propose that the Allemanic Wikipedia is renamed to
> > > gsw.wikipedia.org and thereby associate the language with the correct
> > > ISO-639 code. The rename is opposed by people in the Allemanic Wikipedia
> > > because they do not agree with how their language is perceived.
> > > However, gsw<http://www.ethnologue.com/show_language.asp?code=gsw>has
> > > Alemannisch as a synonym for Schwyzerdütsch and it is therefore
> > > obvious
> > > that the same language is meant.
> > >
> > > Given that there was no contention in the language committee, the
> > request
> > > for a Gheg Wikipedia is given conditional approval.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >      GerardM
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> > >
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