<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Hi Neville,<br><br></div>Thanks for making the extra effort to verify this. I think the information provided by the user is fine with me. Cases like this are not uncommon. Nahid's suggestion is good and I'm glad he would personally handle the OTRS ticket himself. <br><br></div>Best,<br><br></div>Isaac<br><div><div><span style="font-size:12pt"></span></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Sep 19, 2016 at 2:32 PM, Nahid Sultan <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:nahid@wikimedia.org.bd" target="_blank">nahid@wikimedia.org.bd</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p>Hello Neville,</p>
<p>The info you've just provided is enough IMO (all we actually needed to know what the user himself just said to you). If you're convinced then it's fine. Now, to avoid any further confusion you should forward the user's mail to, <span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)">permissions-commons{{@}}<a href="http://wikimedia.org" target="_blank">wi<wbr>kimedia.org</a> </span></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">
<br>
</p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">
<span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue",Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;background-color:rgb(245,245,245)"></span><span style="font-size:12pt">I can personally handle the otrs ticket if you send the the ticket id to me after sending
it.</span><span style="font-size:12pt"> </span></p><span class="">
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">
<span style="font-size:12pt">Best,</span></p>
<p></p>
<div>
<div style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">
Nahid Sultan</p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">
<a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan" style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">User:NahidSultan</span></a><span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
on all </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation" style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Wikimedia
Foundation</span></a><span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">'s public wikis</span><br>
</p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">
<span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt">Secretary,
</span><span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh" target="_blank">Wikimedia Bangladesh</a></span></span></span></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">
<span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:9pt">Twitter:
<a href="https://twitter.com/nahidunlimited" target="_blank">@nahidunlimited</a></span></span></p>
<p style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple Color Emoji","Segoe UI Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;font-size:16px">
<span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/" target="_blank">http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</span><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> WikiLovesMonuments <<a href="mailto:wikilovesmonuments-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org" target="_blank">wikilovesmonuments-bounces@<wbr>lists.wikimedia.org</a>> on behalf of Neville Borg <<a href="mailto:neville.borg@wikimalta.org" target="_blank">neville.borg@wikimalta.org</a>><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 19, 2016 7:21 PM<div><div class="h5"><br>
<b>To:</b> Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM photos are deleted on Commons</div></div></font>
<div> </div>
</div><div><div class="h5">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">Hi Isaac, all,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Just a quick follow up on the <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/James_John_Borg" style="outline:transparent solid 1px" target="_blank">User:James John Borg</a> issue. I have spoken to James John Borg and he informed me that
he bought his camera off a person called Joshua Schembri and he doesn't know how to edit the metadata from the camera settings. This would explain why the metadata is crediting the photo to Joshua Schembri.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>In this case, I have no doubt that he has taken the photos himself - he had reached out to us prior to submitting any photos asking various questions related to editing photos, what kind of photos are eligible etc., and he seems to be genuinely engaged
with the WLM contest. I think we need to assume good faith in this situation. For what it's worth, he may be attending a workshop we are organising later this week, in which case he will be bringing his camera along and I will try to fix his camera's metadata
settings myself. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best regards,</div>
<div>Neville<br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 at 09:48 olatunde olalekan isaac <<a href="mailto:reachout2isaac@gmail.com" target="_blank">reachout2isaac@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>Hi Nevile,<br>
<br>
</div>
Thank you. I'm glad you will step into the breach. I will take a look in another 2 days.
<br>
<br>
</div>
Best,<br>
<br>
</div>
Isaac.<br>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 8:36 AM, Neville Borg <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:neville.borg@wikimalta.org" target="_blank">neville.borg@wikimalta.org</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Isaac,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thanks for pointing this out. I'm the WLM organiser for Malta, so I will try to clarify this with User:James John Borg. I don't know this user personally (despite our shared last name!), but I will try to find a way to contact them. For what it's worth,
both James John Borg and Joshua Schembri are fairly common names in Malta, so I would assume that they are two different people, but that wouldn't automatically exclude the possibility of James John Borg having taken the photos.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Neville</div>
<div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div dir="ltr">On Sun, 18 Sep 2016 at 09:26 olatunde olalekan isaac <<a href="mailto:reachout2isaac@gmail.com" target="_blank">reachout2isaac@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>Dear all,<br>
<br>
I stumbled across another participant, <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/James_John_Borg" target="_blank">
User:James John Borg</a>. Looking at the metadata of their <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles/James_John_Borg" target="_blank">
uploads</a>, it shows that the copyright holder of the files is "<b> Joshua Schembri</b>". I think the user is a participant from Malta. Do we have WLM organizer from Malta willing to take this up?<br>
<br>
</div>
Best,<br>
<br>
</div>
Isaac.<br>
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Sep 18, 2016 at 2:23 AM, Alexander Tsirlin <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:altsirlin@gmail.com" target="_blank">altsirlin@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF">Dear Lodewijk,<br>
<br>
I find it a bit difficult to assume good faith when someone approaches me with a knife. I find it more natural to defend, and that's what we have to do now.<br>
<br>
I truly regret that Commons did not develop a more civil approach than submitting deletion requests on every possible occasion. Even if we assume that this is the reasonable course of action, it hardly makes sense for WLM, because only uploaders receive notifications
about possible file deletion. The organizers have no idea about it, although they should be contacted in the first turn. Most of the uploaders are new users who do not speak English. What do you expect to hear from them?<br>
<br>
All photos related to WLM Russia contain a template saying:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">Please read the <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Monuments_database_in_Russia" title="Commons:Monuments database in Russia" target="_blank">
guidelines</a> before making any changes that can affect the monuments database!</blockquote>
If you actually read the guidelines, you will see the following:<br>
<blockquote type="cite">If you see a potential candidate for deletion, <b>inform us in the first place</b>. We will organize the file transfer and you will be able to delete the photo afterwards. Should you do it differently and nominate a WLM/WLE photo for
deletion without informing us, this will be highly detrimental and disrespectful to our work. We don't like vandals.</blockquote>
All these deletion requests are indeed highly disrespectful to our work. But they happen, and we have no other choice but to fight against that. And whet our knives, because we will likely need them.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
Alexander
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 17.09.2016 12:17, Lodewijk wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hey Alexander,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Assuming good faith is always good - even if you have to work harder for it. It makes the interactions more pleasant and the work more fun. So I will always recommend to keep doing it - even if it goes against your natural response. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The case where the names don't seem to match seems like a valid case to me to ask questions, and this process is (unfortunately) the process being used for that at Wikimedia Commons. It is uncomfortable, but it is what we have to deal with. Because there
are so many pictures, there is a bunch to be expected. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm not going to pretend that the Wikimedia Commons community is always easy or fun to work with - but their intentions are usually good. They are very tough on copyright, and very suspicious. While these are some disadvantages, it does allow us to use
a lot of shared infrastructure, and makes competitions like this one possible on an international scale. Please do realise that the number of uploads typically raises with 30-100% during Wiki Loves Monuments, and this puts some stress/strain on the reviewers
too. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Lodewijk</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2016-09-17 8:58 GMT+02:00 Alexander Tsirlin <span dir="ltr">
<<a href="mailto:altsirlin@gmail.com" target="_blank">altsirlin@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF"><span>
<blockquote type="cite">Rather than complaining to the process could you please for once think that this is your project too and everyone in this together?</blockquote>
</span>It is not my project. Like many other people, I am forced to use it as a common image repository, even though I emphatically do not want to. As you probably know, before migrating to WMF servers Wikivoyage had its own image repository, and we wanted
to keep it, because it was much better organized than Commons, and we did not want other people to impose their rules and practices of "nominating everything for deletion" on images that we have carefully collected ourselves.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, our request was ignored by the WMF, so yes, we are also in this strange thing that was supposed to be a common project, but is in fact run by a handful of people who believe that unjustified and well-hidden deletion requests are the best way
to solve all problems. But it stinks, and we try to be as far from it as possible.<br>
<br>
Your experience of license review for WLM Bangladesh might be interesting if we would ever have time to do this. At the moment, I spend most of my free time on finding and fighting these well-hidden deletion requests. Thank you, my dear Commons community, for
creating such a wonderful working environment.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
Alexander
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 17.09.2016 11:32, Nahid Sultan wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p>Though it seems a bit odd but on a commons perspective it is also a normal procedure. Commons has a huge issue with people finding images online and then uploading them as their own work, so regular contributors on commons can sometimes be overzealous in
making sure that people actually have the right to release what they are releasing. That is where the OTRS system comes in. Rather than complaining to the process could you please for once think that this is your project too and everyone in this together?</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>We, from WLM Bangladesh team have created a work-board/list for such users who have problem with metadata, previously published same image on other media to make sure that they are actually own the copyright. we even created a hand book for reviewers explaining
what to look during the review (<a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM" target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.<wbr>org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM</a>)<wbr>. So, every reviewer check for those mistakes when reviewing an image then if they
found such problematic user they immediately contact them via email or talk page and list them on <a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM/possible_copyright_problem" target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.<wbr>org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM/<wbr>possible_copyright_problem</a>.
It works for us.</p>
<br>
<p>Best,</p>
<div>
<div style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p>Nahid Sultan</p>
<p><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan" style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">User:NahidSultan</span></a><span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
on all </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation" style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Wikimedia
Foundation</span></a><span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">'s public wikis</span><br>
</p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt">Secretary,
</span><span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh" target="_blank">Wikimedia Bangladesh</a></span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:9pt">Twitter:
<a href="https://twitter.com/nahidunlimited" target="_blank">@nahidunlimited</a></span></span></p>
<p><span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a href="http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/" target="_blank">http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<hr style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div dir="ltr"><font style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000" face="Calibri, sans-serif"><b>From:</b> WikiLovesMonuments
<a href="mailto:wikilovesmonuments-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org" target="_blank"><wikilovesmonuments-bounces@<wbr>lists.wikimedia.org></a> on behalf of Alexander Tsirlin
<a href="mailto:altsirlin@gmail.com" target="_blank"><altsirlin@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 17, 2016 11:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM photos are deleted on Commons</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt">
<div>Now it is not only about Freedom of Panorama and non-free images.<br>
<br>
<a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_uploaded_by_VekaSpb" target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.org/<wbr>wiki/Commons:Deletion_<wbr>requests/Files_uploaded_by_<wbr>VekaSpb</a><br>
Here, one Commons user nominates a bunch of excellent photos for <br>
deletion after he sees that the user name does not match the name in <br>
EXIF, even though the connection between the two is pretty obvious. This <br>
deletion request has been closed yesterday, but it still costed me a lot <br>
of time and a long e-mail exchange with the uploader, where I tried to <br>
convince her that everything is fine, and this deletion request was only <br>
a mistake. Yes, just a small mistake, really...<br>
<br>
<a href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_uploaded_by_PhotoJinn" target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.org/<wbr>wiki/Commons:Deletion_<wbr>requests/Files_uploaded_by_<wbr>PhotoJinn</a><br>
Here, the same user nominates for deletion some photos of a 13th century <br>
cathedral claiming that there is no freedom of panorama. What???!<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>---------<br>
<br>
That's a very systematic course of action against us taking place on <br>
Commons. It would be silly to assume good faith here.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Alexander<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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