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Dear Isaac,<br>
<br>
First, I would kindly ask that you stop mingling my name, unless you
want me to do the same with yours.<br>
<br>
Second, I regret, but I don't see much logic in what you are saying.
If you need the OTRS permission, you should have asked for it in the
first turn. But you did not ask for it. You just asked the user to
confirm that the name in EXIF is her real name, and she confirmed.
Why was a deletion request necessary? It acted simply as the knife
at the throat and it was an intimidation (which, by the way, the
uploader felt indeed - she was quite frustrated when she wrote me
about this whole situation).<br>
<br>
Third, I hope you realized that there are people who take care of
the Russian WLM photos and that next time when you stumble upon such
a photo, you will ask me or Yaroslav before taking any serious
action. This should help us to avoid any further misunderstanding.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
Alexander<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 18.09.2016 00:52, olatunde olalekan
isaac wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAEKHrP7Gx4cW-LjSu0oVG0JxicFRMzTcB4esCRqUNmQ5qCBHNg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div> Hey Alexander<br>
<br>
TL:DR. Please, bare in mind that Common community have
policies regarding copyright which they will never ignore for
a contest like this. Thus, you need not lose your cool and
make personal remarks in accusing reviewers of intimidating
WLM participants. Such assertion is untrue because we are in
this together. We should not pretend that what we are
experiencing now is expected. I agree with Lodewijk that
Wikimedia Commons community is not always easy or fun to work
with but we just have to deal with it. There are thousands of
files waiting for review and there are few regular users
patrolling new files or reviewing them. If a reviewer nominate
a file for deletion in a way you consider inappropriate, try
to discuss with the user. The reviewer could be under stress
as at the time they were reviewing the files. BTW, it's a red
flag when username don't seem to match with copyright
information on metadata, thus reviewer may decide to nominate
such files for deletion per our precautionary principle. This
is not uncommon and such actions are usually not considered
destructive or attacks on participant. Alexander, your
username is "User:Atsrlin" and if on your camera metadata, the
author is "Merlin" for example, reviewer may not assume that
your real name is Merlin unless you already state it on your
user page or elsewhere because Atsrlin could mean something
totally different in your country and may be unconnected with
Merlin. In reality, you're Alexander and Merlin is a
different person who may probably come around to raise
concerns about infringement of their copyright in the future.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Here is another participant, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/James_John_Borg">User:James
John Borg</a>. Looking at the metadata of their <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:ListFiles/James_John_Borg">uploads</a>,
it shows that the copyright holder of the files is "<b> Joshua
Schembri</b>". Should a reviewer simply assume that "James
John Borg" is the same person as "Joshua Schembri"? In most
cases uploaders are not always sincere when it comes to
copyright issues if you merely ask them. This is why we
usually advice them to send evidence to our support team
(COM:OTRS) after taking the files to DR. <br>
<br>
</div>
<div>However, I'm a bit reluctant to nominate User:James John
Borg's files for deletion but I don't have enough time to
investigate it now, maybe someone familiar with the user can
take it up.<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Best,<br>
<br>
</div>
<div>Isaac (User:Wikicology)<br>
</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Sep 17, 2016 at 8:17 AM,
Lodewijk <span dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lodewijk@effeietsanders.org" target="_blank">lodewijk@effeietsanders.org</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hey Alexander,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Assuming good faith is always good - even if you have
to work harder for it. It makes the interactions more
pleasant and the work more fun. So I will always
recommend to keep doing it - even if it goes against
your natural response. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The case where the names don't seem to match seems
like a valid case to me to ask questions, and this
process is (unfortunately) the process being used for
that at Wikimedia Commons. It is uncomfortable, but it
is what we have to deal with. Because there are so many
pictures, there is a bunch to be expected. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>I'm not going to pretend that the Wikimedia Commons
community is always easy or fun to work with - but their
intentions are usually good. They are very tough on
copyright, and very suspicious. While these are some
disadvantages, it does allow us to use a lot of shared
infrastructure, and makes competitions like this one
possible on an international scale. Please do realise
that the number of uploads typically raises with 30-100%
during Wiki Loves Monuments, and this puts some
stress/strain on the reviewers too. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Lodewijk</div>
</div>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2016-09-17 8:58 GMT+02:00
Alexander Tsirlin <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:altsirlin@gmail.com"
target="_blank">altsirlin@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span>
<blockquote type="cite">Rather than
complaining to the process could
you please for once think that this is your
project too and everyone in this together?</blockquote>
</span> It is not my project. Like many other
people, I am forced to use it as a common image
repository, even though I emphatically do not
want to. As you probably know, before migrating
to WMF servers Wikivoyage had its own image
repository, and we wanted to keep it, because it
was much better organized than Commons, and we
did not want other people to impose their rules
and practices of "nominating everything for
deletion" on images that we have carefully
collected ourselves.<br>
<br>
Unfortunately, our request was ignored by the
WMF, so yes, we are also in this strange thing
that was supposed to be a common project, but is
in fact run by a handful of people who believe
that unjustified and well-hidden deletion
requests are the best way to solve all problems.
But it stinks, and we try to be as far from it
as possible.<br>
<br>
Your experience of license review for WLM
Bangladesh might be interesting if we would ever
have time to do this. At the moment, I spend
most of my free time on finding and fighting
these well-hidden deletion requests. Thank you,
my dear Commons community, for creating such a
wonderful working environment.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
Alexander
<div>
<div><br>
<br>
<br>
<div>On 17.09.2016 11:32, Nahid Sultan
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div
style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p> Though it seems a bit odd but on a
commons perspective it is also a
normal procedure. Commons has a huge
issue with people finding images
online and then uploading them as
their own work, so regular
contributors on commons can sometimes
be overzealous in making sure that
people actually have the right to
release what they are releasing. That
is where the OTRS system comes in.
Rather than complaining to the process
could you please for once think that
this is your project too and everyone
in this together?</p>
<p> <br>
</p>
<p> We, from WLM Bangladesh team
have created a work-board/list for
such users who have problem with
metadata, previously published same
image on other media to make sure that
they are actually own the copyright.
we even created a hand book for
reviewers explaining what to look
during the review (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM"
target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.org<wbr>/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM</a>). <wbr>So,
every reviewer check for those
mistakes when reviewing an image then
if they found such problematic user
they immediately contact them via
email or talk page and list them on <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM/possible_copyright_problem"
target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.o<wbr>rg/wiki/User:NahidSultan/WLM/p<wbr>ossible_copyright_problem</a>.
It works for us.</p>
<br>
<p>Best,</p>
<div>
<div
style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#ffffff;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p> Nahid Sultan</p>
<p> <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan" style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">User:NahidSultan</span></a><span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
on all </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation" style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Wikimedia
Foundation</span></a><span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">'s public wikis</span><br>
</p>
<p> <span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt">Secretary,
</span><span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:9pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh" target="_blank">Wikimedia Bangladesh</a></span></span></span></p>
<p> <span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif;font-size:9pt">Twitter:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://twitter.com/nahidunlimited" target="_blank">@nahidunlimited</a></span></span></p>
<p> <span style="color:rgb(20,24,35);line-height:18px;white-space:pre-wrap;font-size:9pt;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/" target="_blank">http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/</a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">
<div>
<hr
style="display:inline-block;width:98%">
<div dir="ltr"><font
style="font-size:11pt"
face="Calibri, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><b>From:</b>
WikiLovesMonuments <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wikilovesmonuments-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org"
target="_blank"><wikilovesmonuments-bounces@li<wbr>sts.wikimedia.org></a>
on behalf of Alexander Tsirlin <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:altsirlin@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><altsirlin@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September
17, 2016 11:09 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Wiki Loves Monuments
Photograph Competition<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Wiki Loves
Monuments] WLM photos are
deleted on Commons</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<font size="2"><span
style="font-size:10pt">
<div>Now it is not only about
Freedom of Panorama and non-free
images.<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_uploaded_by_VekaSpb"
target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.org/<wbr>wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests<wbr>/Files_uploaded_by_VekaSpb</a><br>
Here, one Commons user nominates
a bunch of excellent photos for
<br>
deletion after he sees that the
user name does not match the
name in <br>
EXIF, even though the connection
between the two is pretty
obvious. This <br>
deletion request has been closed
yesterday, but it still costed
me a lot <br>
of time and a long e-mail
exchange with the uploader,
where I tried to <br>
convince her that everything is
fine, and this deletion request
was only <br>
a mistake. Yes, just a small
mistake, really...<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_uploaded_by_PhotoJinn"
target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.org/<wbr>wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests<wbr>/Files_uploaded_by_PhotoJinn</a><br>
Here, the same user nominates
for deletion some photos of a
13th century <br>
cathedral claiming that there is
no freedom of panorama. What???!<br>
<br>
------------------------------<wbr>---------<br>
<br>
That's a very systematic course
of action against us taking
place on <br>
Commons. It would be silly to
assume good faith here.<br>
<br>
Best,<br>
Alexander<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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