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Dear Nahid,<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p>I'm sure you've put numerous effort and hard works on the WLM
but calling other community members <span style="font-family:
Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, "Apple Color
Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji,
"Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji",
EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">"</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
"Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",
NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android
Emoji", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 13.3333px;">freaks and
assholes"</span> just because they disagree with you is not a
good idea. And certainly not a polite way to approach others. </p>
</blockquote>
Sorry, but I have no other words for people who systematically
undermine our work and spread lies about us and our activities.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">In my understanding, you want problematic
FoP images uploaded on commons as part of WLM during Sept and
then you & other organizers will move the images to local
projects under fair use, right? If so, while this is a good and
reasonable idea but it gives the impression that Commons community
is well aware of the violations and intentionally doing it even
though just for a month.</blockquote>
If the Commons community is a responsible community, it will know
that all such images should be at least reviewed, and this review
takes time. I have quoted the deletion request from last year:<br>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt;"><a
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_in_Category:Images_for_transfer_from_WLM-2015_in_Russia">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_in_Category:Images_for_transfer_from_WLM-2015_in_Russia</a></span></font><br>
where photos of 18th-century monuments were going to be deleted. Is
that the way you want to proceed?<br>
<br>
The responsible approach to this problem is that the no-FOP images
are sorted and, when possible, transferred to other projects, so
that no useful content is lost. I don't see how this responsible
approach can be considered as an "intentional copyright violation",
perhaps only in the eyes of those freaks and assholes whom I already
mentioned.<br>
<br>
If you want to speed up the review and transfer process, please,
come and help us with that. Unsurprisingly, no Commons users has
ever assisted us in this work.<br>
<br>
I would also like to remind you that there are about 1900 no-FOP
images from the year 2015. The fact that these images are still on
Commons and nobody bothered to delete them, whereas images from 2016
face imminent deletion, makes me believe that some people on Commons
deliberately act against WLM, in particular WLM-Russia. This is the
main message of my e-mail.<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">In another part of your mail you've
mentioned that "<span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji",
"Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI
Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;
font-size: 13.3333px;">From technical point of view, it is
difficult to separate no-FOP </span><span style="font-family:
Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, "Apple Color
Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji,
"Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji",
EmojiSymbols; font-size: 13.3333px;">monuments from the rest of
the monuments, because Commons follows a very </span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
"Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",
NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android
Emoji", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 13.3333px;">strict policy
about no-FOP images. " <span style="font-family: Calibri,
Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji",
"Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI
Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;
font-size: 16px;">In this case, I think it's best to open a
request for comment on commons to sort out the clear
defination of the Russian law regarding FoP. </span></span></blockquote>
I have neither time nor intention for doing that. Commons has the
so-called "Precautionary principle" that can be used to justify the
deletion of any file and that is sometimes used for exactly this
purpose. As long as Commons works this way, transferring files to
other projects is a more viable approach. <br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
Alexander<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 08.09.2016 13:14, Nahid Sultan
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:SG2PR0601MB1454AF1449FEEAB0932E08CC9AFB0@SG2PR0601MB1454.apcprd06.prod.outlook.com"
type="cite">
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<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;background-color:#FFFFFF;font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;">
<p>Hey Alexander, </p>
<p>I'm sure you've put numerous effort and hard works on the WLM
but calling other community members <span style="font-family:
Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif, "Apple Color
Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji,
"Segoe UI Symbol", "Android Emoji",
EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">"</span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
"Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",
NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android
Emoji", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 13.3333px;">freaks and
assholes"</span> just because they disagree with you is not
a good idea. And certainly not a polite way to approach
others. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>In my understanding, you want problematic FoP images
uploaded on commons as part of WLM during Sept and then you
& other organizers will move the images to local projects
under fair use, right? If so, while this is a good and
reasonable idea but it gives the impression that Commons
community is well aware of the violations and intentionally
doing it even though just for a month. </p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>In another part of your mail you've mentioned that "<span
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
"Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",
NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android
Emoji", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 13.3333px;">From
technical point of view, it is difficult to separate no-FOP </span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
"Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",
NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android
Emoji", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 13.3333px;">monuments
from the rest of the monuments, because Commons follows a
very </span><span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial,
Helvetica, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji",
"Segoe UI Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI
Symbol", "Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols;
font-size: 13.3333px;">strict policy about no-FOP images. "
<span style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI
Emoji", NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol",
"Android Emoji", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 16px;">In
this case, I think it's best to open a request for
comment on commons to sort out the clear defination of the
Russian law regarding FoP. </span></span><span
style="font-family: Calibri, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif,
"Apple Color Emoji", "Segoe UI Emoji",
NotoColorEmoji, "Segoe UI Symbol", "Android
Emoji", EmojiSymbols; font-size: 13.3333px;"></span></p>
<p>Best,</p>
<div id="Signature">
<div id="divtagdefaultwrapper" style="font-size:12pt;
color:#000000; background-color:#FFFFFF;
font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
<p
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple
Color Emoji","Segoe UI
Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI
Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;
font-size:16px">
Nahid Sultan</p>
<p
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple
Color Emoji","Segoe UI
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Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;
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<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:NahidSultan" target="_blank" id="LPNoLP" style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size:small; line-height:18px; white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">User:NahidSultan</span></a><span style="color:rgb(20,24,35); line-height:18px; white-space:pre-wrap; font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
on all </span><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation" target="_blank" id="LPNoLP" style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size:small; line-height:18px; white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">Wikimedia
Foundation</span></a><span style="color:rgb(20,24,35); line-height:18px; white-space:pre-wrap; font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">'s public wikis</span><br>
</p>
<p
style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif,"Apple
Color Emoji","Segoe UI
Emoji",NotoColorEmoji,"Segoe UI
Symbol","Android Emoji",EmojiSymbols;
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<span style="color:rgb(20,24,35); line-height:18px; white-space:pre-wrap; font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-size:9pt">Secretary,
</span><span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size:9pt"><span style="font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Bangladesh" target="_blank" id="LPNoLP">Wikimedia Bangladesh</a></span></span></span></p>
<p
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<span style="color:rgb(20,24,35); line-height:18px; white-space:pre-wrap; font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="font-family:helvetica,arial,sans-serif; font-size:9pt">Twitter:
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://twitter.com/nahidunlimited" id="LPNoLP">@nahidunlimited</a></span></span></p>
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<span style="color:rgb(20,24,35); line-height:18px; white-space:pre-wrap; font-size:9pt; font-family:Calibri,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/" class="OWAAutoLink" id="LPNoLP">http://blog.nahidsultan.xyz/</a></span></p>
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<br>
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<div id="x_divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font
style="font-size:11pt" face="Calibri, sans-serif"
color="#000000"><b>From:</b> WikiLovesMonuments
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:wikilovesmonuments-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org"><wikilovesmonuments-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org></a>
on behalf of Alexander Tsirlin
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:altsirlin@gmail.com"><altsirlin@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, September 8, 2016 4:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org">wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Wiki Loves Monuments] WLM photos are
deleted on Commons</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
<font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt;">
<div class="PlainText">Dear All,<br>
<br>
We have a severe problem with some of the photos
uploaded during Russian <br>
WLM. As some of you may know, Russia has Freedom of
Panorama (FOP) for <br>
architecture, but not for sculptures. Therefore, photos
of recent <br>
(post-WWII) sculptures are not eligible for Commons,
although they are <br>
OK for Russian Wikipedia and Wikivoyage where they are
stored under fair <br>
use. From technical point of view, it is difficult to
separate no-FOP <br>
monuments from the rest of the monuments, because
Commons follows a very <br>
strict policy about no-FOP images. For example, they
consider a small <br>
sculpture on a building (which is part of an
architectural monument) as <br>
a separate object that is not covered by FOP. This has
been a matter of <br>
debate and contention for long time, because the
majority of <br>
Russian-speaking users tend to go for a softer
interpretation and treat <br>
such things as architecture (i.e., eligible for
Commons), while the <br>
minority of Russian-speaking users sitting on Commons is
generally <br>
hostile to other Russian-speaking projects and tries to
create us as <br>
many problems as possible.<br>
<br>
Last year we found a reasonable procedure that was
agreed upon by <br>
several Commons admins. Out of 23700 photos uploaded in
Russian WLM <br>
2015, about 1900 photos were identified as "no-FOP". We
reviewed these <br>
images, linked many of them in other projects, and
eventually <br>
transferred 1280 images to other Russian-speaking
projects under fair <br>
use. Subsequently, nobody bothered to delete these
photos from Commons, <br>
one year passed, and of course no legal problems
appeared, but from our <br>
side we did everything we could do and we spent an
enormous amount of <br>
time on doing this.<br>
<br>
The only request from our side was that no WLM photos
are deleted before <br>
October 31, 2015, because image transfer is a slow
process and it should <br>
be done carefully. Last year several Commons admins
supported this <br>
strategy and closed the most outrageous deletion
request:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_in_Category:Images_for_transfer_from_WLM-2015_in_Russia">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_in_Category:Images_for_transfer_from_WLM-2015_in_Russia</a><br>
<br>
which was submitted by a guy previously expelled from
Russian Wikipedia. <br>
He wanted to delete about 200 photos all at the same
time, and he tried <br>
to covertly delete some photos of 18th-century monuments
as being "not <br>
covered by FOP in Russia"...<br>
<br>
So this year a similar story happens again:<br>
<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_of_User:%D0%9B%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B295_2">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_of_User:Лавров95_2</a><br>
<br>
Another user - now the one who published defamatory
articles about <br>
Russian WLM organizers last year - accuses us in severe
copyright <br>
violations and writes nonsense that we have not done
anything about <br>
no-FOP photos from 2015. You can check my response to
him in the same <br>
thread, where I write explicitly how images were sorted
and transferred. <br>
Once again, we spent days and hours of our time on doing
this.<br>
<br>
What we need now is the general support of the community
against such <br>
freaks and assholes who spoil our life and try to
undermine the WLM <br>
process. The strategy of the Russian team is that all
cultural heritage <br>
monuments are important for the project. We do not
encourage people to <br>
upload "no-FOP" photos, but of course people upload
them, and our goal <br>
is to use these images in the best possible way. Last
year we did a lot <br>
of work to achieve this goal, and we are ready to do the
same this year <br>
unless all relevant photos are deleted from Commons
immediately, as some <br>
of the Commons users suggest. If this happens, I am
afraid that WLM will <br>
not make any sense for us, at least not on Commons.<br>
<br>
Sorry for the long e-mail, and I am looking forward to
your support.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
Alexander<br>
<br>
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href="http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org">http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org</a></div>
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