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Dear Ilya, Leila, and others, <br>
<br>
Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, I am not programmer, and
I can't help you with the development. I only know that Tools had
severe problems in the past, and it may not be a very reliable
solution because, if something happens to the server, you won't have
direct control and won't be able to solve the problem quickly. I had
enough trouble when map scripts for Wikivoyage were running there.<br>
<br>
I have spoken to our jury members, and their request is two-fold.
First, the jury tool should be fully operational and stable before
the contest and not 1.5 months after its end. Second, it is highly
desirable to start the grading already in September, because
processing 20,000 photos in 25 days would be difficult. <br>
<br>
When I am writing about alternatives, I also mean that the grading
can be organized with a very simple system of galleries and grading
sheets that lacks the nice graphical interface, but works reliably
and directly on Commons. And it perfectly fits our needs mentioned
above. After our recent WLE experience I seriously think that such a
primitive system will save us a lot of time and nerves. However,
let's wait until the end of August and see where we are.<br>
<br>
From my side, I can test the system in the end of August and write
my comments about its usability. It will also help me to decide
whether we use WLX jury tool for WLM this year.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
Alexander<br>
<br>
PS. Thanks for submitting the Phabricator tickets!<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 03.08.2016 11:38, Ilya Korniyko
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAN8OKLZdymV7xTTJj-8X9BaLxticDys7geY1wG0dTgxFS9GYpw@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">I'll add on
<div>* Creating next round - sorry for latency. This is already
implemented. On <span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">July
16 as Alexander mentioned himself</span></div>
<div>* Tool unavailability </div>
<div>** I installed monit service to reload jury tool and mysql
when it goes down. Will have to wait and see if this helps.
Before this I tried upstart and systemd configurations that
also have respawn option. Unfortunately they worked on
Ubuntu/Debian/Centos 7, but not on Centos 6 that is on WMUA's
server, so I have to look for other tool and used monit for
this.</div>
<div>** Tool is already deployed on Tool Labs - <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/wlxjury/auth"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://tools.wmflabs.org/wlxjury/auth">https://tools.wmflabs.org/wlxjury/auth</a></a><br>
<div>* [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T141908">T141908</a>]
Restriction that users have contest assigned to them and
cannot be added to another - will be fixed by end of the
week.</div>
</div>
<div>* [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T141909">T141909</a>]
Complete export from the jury tool. It is actually available
in the form of exporting each juror rating or selection
separately and overall rating for rating rounds. What is
suggested is to have overall number of jurors that selected an
image in the selection round and (<span
style="font-size:12.8px">Leila's suggestion</span>) one
cross table with images as rows, jurors as columns and
rating/selections as cell. This is a trivial change as
everything is already loaded in statistics module, I'll just
to have to output these specific fields. Also will be done by
end of the week.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Regarding alternate tool. <span
style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">Overall
I think it's always good to have alternative and understand
what we have. </span>I know at least two tools which can to
be good - </div>
<ul style="list-style-type:square;margin:0.3em 0px 0px
1.6em;padding:0px;color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">
<li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">Israel jury tool by <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ynhockey"
title="User:Ynhockey"
style="text-decoration:none;color:rgb(90,54,150);background:none">User:Ynhockey</a> (his
own claim)</li>
<li style="margin-bottom:0.1em">Germany jury tool - <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://tools.wmflabs.org/jury/"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://tools.wmflabs.org/jury/">http://tools.wmflabs.org/jury/</a></a> (Germany
has lots of images and usually select winners fast, so I
hope their tool is good)</li>
</ul>
<div><font face="sans-serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">Unfortunately
I have not seen them, and their sources are not
published. </span></font></div>
<div><font face="sans-serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="sans-serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">Regarding
developing of some completely new tool. I don't think it
is a serious option. It will be very effort consuming and
most certainly will not provide a better tool than already
existing ones. At least for this years WLM.</span></font></div>
<div><font face="sans-serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px"><br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font face="sans-serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">Regards,</span></font></div>
<div><font face="sans-serif" color="#000000"><span
style="font-size:12.7px;line-height:19.05px">Ilya</span></font></div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Lily <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lilyofthewest.wikimedia@gmail.com"
target="_blank">lilyofthewest.wikimedia@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Alexander and others, :)
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>What I did in the past 2+ days</b></div>
<div>I reviewed your comments carefully and talked with a
subset of the <span>WLM</span> international team
including <span>Ilya</span> about the issues you have
raised. I also reached out to few people outside of the
team, to hear their thoughts and experiences, and here I
am proposing the next steps.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>Next steps</b></div>
<div>* <span>Ilya</span> will be looking to <span>onboard</span>
one person to work with him on the code-base. This
person will also create the redundancy that you
mentioned in your notes earlier. Ideally, between <span>Ilya</span>
and this person, the response time will be "same-day"
except for non-critical requests. (If you know Scala or
you know Java and you are passionate to get to the Scala
world, please contact Ilya, and cc me.)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* <span>Ilya</span> will give it a try to move the
code-base to Tools this week. This will make sure that
the service will have a standard up-time we can count
on. There are three tasks associated with this effort:
T141910, T124902, T141908. You can find them at <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://">https://</a><span>phabricator</span>.<span>wikimedia</span>.org/project/view/2005/.
<span>Ilya</span> and I will review the tasks at the end
of this week and re-assess the time they require.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* Given the time crunch, <span>Ilya</span> and I
discussed pursuing a plan B or an alternative tool that
the international team can work on while <span>Ilya</span>
is busy fixing bugs and improving <span>WLX</span> in
the coming weeks. Based on this conversation, I have
started reaching out to the owners of the 5 other jury
tools. In the coming days, my attention will be focused
on assessing where these tools are at the moment, and
figuring out if offering one of them as an alternative
makes sense. We also discussed the option of developing
another tool. Basically, all options are on the table
with plan b at the moment. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>* I will do my best to send updates to <span>wikilovesmonuments</span>
public list about the progress with regards to the jury
tool. If you don't hear from me and you want to hear
more, please ask on the list, and I will get back to you
there. :)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><b>Help needed</b></div>
<div>We have a short time before the start of the contest,
and I want us to feel confident that we will have a
solid tool for everyone when we start on Sep. 1. We
cannot do this alone though:</div>
<div>* If we are to adapt any of the current tools or
create a new tool, we are under a time crunch. If you
can help with usability testing of the tool we will work
on under time constraints, please let me know off-list. </div>
<div>* We also may need help for further developing one of
the current tools, or creating a new one. If you have
time to help with that under the current time
constraints, please email me off-list with information
about the languages you are comfortable with and maybe a
<span>GitHub</span> repository of (a sample of) your
past work.<br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>And last but not least, I want to assure you that
coming up with a solution for the jury tool(s) that we
can use more smoothly during this year's WLM contest has
a high priority for the international team. You have our
commitments here. :)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Leila, on behalf of the <span>WLM</span>
international team</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div class="h5"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 7:22
AM, Lily <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:lilyofthewest.wikimedia@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:lilyofthewest.wikimedia@gmail.com">lilyofthewest.wikimedia@gmail.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Alexander,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Thank you for sharing your experience. We
will review your comments in the <span>WLM</span>
international team and will get back to you by
2016-08-03. In terms of the <span>timelines</span>,
there is a general understanding in the team
that we'd like to have a fully functional jury
tool before <span>WLM</span> kicks off on
Sep. 1. Otherwise, we will have many sleepless
nights and create many more of those for
others. It's our high priority to avoid that.
:)</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Best,</div>
<div>Leila, on behalf of <span>WLM</span>
international team</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div>
<div><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 31,
2016 at 6:55 AM, Alexander Tsirlin <span
dir="ltr"><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:altsirlin@gmail.com"
target="_blank">altsirlin@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">We had very
bad experience with using the WLX jury
tool this year. I described it at length
here:<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:WLX_Jury_Tool"
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:WLX_Jury_Tool</a><br>
<br>
Several possible solutions are also
mentioned on that page. I would like to
hear your opinion about this situation.
Could anyone help Ilya with developing
and maintaining the jury tool, and make
sure that it works at it should work?<br>
<br>
If we are planning to meet a very sharp
deadline of October 25 for WLM photos,
the jury tool should work absolutely
smoothly, and user support has to be
very prompt. Or it would be good to know
already now that we can't rely on the
jury tool, and alternative solutions
should be searched for.<br>
<br>
Sincerely,<br>
Alexander<br>
<br>
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<div dir="ltr"><span
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