<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Jane</div><div><br></div><div>As there are good Wikidata entries for the UK, but for no other countries so far as I know, it would be sensible to use those as the basis for building some general, international, tools. Magnus has kindly offered to work on that, on the basis that the community can agree on something of wide applicability and not just country by country.</div><div><br></div><div>As of now, there is a tool to find monuments nearby and to upload images to Commons, but it only works in English and for countries that have data items in Wikidata. </div><div><br></div><div>I fully agree with you that we now need to start using the Wikidata items and to extend what we have to other countries and languages.</div><div><br></div><div>Where would the best place be to work on collaboratively defining the functionality of the tools we want? A page on Wikidata or on Commons? </div><div><br>Michael </div><div><br>On 30 Jul 2015, at 11:19, Jane Darnell <<a href="mailto:jane023@gmail.com">jane023@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Michael,<div>I guess I don't quite follow you. When you say "<span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">English, Scottish, Welsh and NI" are you referring to different languages? Are all items available for WLM participation through a mobile "nearby" feature during the month of september to english and welsh speakers?</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">To be clear, I am just a WLM participant and will not update any other lists - I just made those edits to illustrate my argument for using the Wikidata list items (which don't seem to serve any purpose right now).</span></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8000001907349px">Jane</span></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 12:05 PM, Michael Maggs <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:michael@maggs.name" target="_blank">michael@maggs.name</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Hi Jane</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I've not been following closely what you're doing here, but I assume it is the updating of the existing Wikidata items for UK listed buildings rather than the creation of new ones?</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">As part of WLM last year, we obtained updated copies of the definitive lists from the English, Scottish, Welsh and NI listing bodies, as well as the scheduled ancient monuments records. Magnus uploaded all of the ancient monument and the grade I and II* listed buildings direct to Wikidata - around 80,000 records if I remember rightly. </span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">We ran the WLM contest in the UK directly from these Wikidata records without going via Wikipedia at all. The old UK monuments database dates from before all that work. It is no longer useful and can be deleted.</span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">If there are inconsistencies between Wikidata and Wikipedia regarding these lists, Wikipedia needs to be corrected/updated. </span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Happy to discuss in more detail if you'd like to contact me off list. </span></div><div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>Michael </span></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br><br><br></span></font><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><span><br><br>_________ ______________________________________<br>Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list<br><a href="mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org" target="_blank">WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments</a><br><a href="http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org</a></span></span></font></blockquote></div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></font></div></div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></font></div></div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">_______________________________________________<br>Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list<br><a href="mailto:WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org" target="_blank">WikiLovesMonuments@lists.wikimedia.org</a><br><a href="https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments" target="_blank">https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments</a><br><a href="http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org/" target="_blank">http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org</a></span></font></blockquote><br>Michael </div><div><br>On 30 Jul 2015, at 10:59, Jane Darnell <<a href="mailto:jane023@gmail.com" target="_blank">jane023@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Well I think your reasoning is what has kept us from doing this, and last year I would have agreed with you. However, let me begin by telling a story: one of the problems we have with filling the WLM lists in general is that we have very few wiki(p/m)edians who take pictures in remote rural areas near their home, but oddly, we have lots and lots of wiki(p/m)edians who take pictures in remote rural areas while on vacation (near or not to the homes of other wiki(p/m)edians apparently).<div><br></div><div>Today we have no unified WLM interface for wiki(p/m)edians to join WLM in any other language-pedia than their own, and I feel this is an unnecessary barrier to entry of potential WLM contributions.</div><div><br></div><div>The advantage of using the Wikidata list items for this purpose is that you have some control in presentation, whereas live queries have a haphazard list order based on date-of-creation-of-the-Wikidata-item</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Magnus Manske <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:magnusmanske@googlemail.com" target="_blank">magnusmanske@googlemail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Ah, do we really want to duplicate information like this? The individual items already have "heritage status: Grade I listed structure" or somesuch. Manually curating a list on Q6646074 seems pointless when we can auto-generate it.<br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 10:00 AM Jane Darnell <<a href="mailto:jane023@gmail.com" target="_blank">jane023@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">So now, for the Birmingham list (first link in the mail below), I added the first few monuments to the Wikidata item for this list here:<div><a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6646074" target="_blank">https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6646074</a></div><div><br></div><div>I used "has part" but maybe there should be a property "list item" or somesuch thing?<br><div class="gmail_quote"></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_quote">---------- Forwarded message ----------<br>From: <b class="gmail_sendername">Jane Darnell</b> <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jane023@gmail.com" target="_blank">jane023@gmail.com</a>></span><br>Date: Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 1:03 PM<br>Subject: Re: [Wiki Loves Monuments] Moving monuments database to Wikidata<br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_quote">To: Wiki Loves Monuments Photograph Competition <<a href="mailto:wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org" target="_blank">wikilovesmonuments@lists.wikimedia.org</a>><br><br><br></div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr">OK I am now looking at your Q number Q5642705 and I see that it is a hall, so I expect it to be an instance of hall, but it's not and it's an instance of architectural structure. This item has an enwiki Wikipedia article and when I click what links here I see the WLM list here:<div><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listed_buildings_in_Birmingham" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Listed_buildings_in_Birmingham</a><br><div><div>Here I see only 4 columns - name, grade, date and architect</div><div><br></div><div>An item that is also a hall in NL is a water board building called a gemeenlandshuis. Here is an example item</div><div><a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2847105" target="_blank">https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q2847105</a><br></div><div>This is an instance of gemeenlandshuis which in turn is a subclass of hall.</div><div><br></div><div>On the Dutch Wikipedia when I click what links here I see the link to the WLM list here:</div><div><a href="https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_rijksmonumenten_in_Haarlemmerliede_en_Spaarnwoude" target="_blank">https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_rijksmonumenten_in_Haarlemmerliede_en_Spaarnwoude</a><br></div><div>This list has eight columns - name, original function, date, architect, location, coordinates, WLM ID, photo</div></div></div><div><br></div><div>The column headings should be coming from the monuments database, and the original function should be the reason the object made it into the WLM list.</div><div><br></div><div>I think both of these items should be part of a corresponding list on Wikidata. When I click what links here on Wikidata I see nothing that takes me to WLM. The only clue is the property P1435 for the British Q and property P359 for the Dutch Q. </div><div><br></div><div>Maybe we should augment the corresponding list items with their members so that when you click what links here you are taken to the Q number of of the list item? This effectively migrates the lists to Wikidata</div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Jul 26, 2015 at 12:42 PM, Andy Mabbett <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk" target="_blank">andy@pigsonthewing.org.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On 26 July 2015 at 07:42, Jane Darnell <<a href="mailto:jane023@gmail.com" target="_blank">jane023@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
> So such wikipedia articles should be labelled " instance of" <the name of<br>
> your identifier used in WLM>.<br>
<br>
I believe that method has been deprecated, and it is preferred to use<br>
a property P1435 ("heritage status" in English):<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1435" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P1435</a><br>
<br>
as done, for example, on:<br>
<br>
<a href="https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5642705" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q5642705</a><span><font color="#888888"><br>
<span><font color="#888888"><br>
--<br>
Andy Mabbett<br>
@pigsonthewing<br>
<a href="http://pigsonthewing.org.uk" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pigsonthewing.org.uk</a><br>
<br>
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