[WikiEN-l] Privacy Study Looking for Volunteers

Tue Mar 31 12:30:37 UTC 2015

I'm far from convinced that the Foundation should be involved in
push-polling.
On 31 Mar 2015 09:24, "Brian J Mingus" <brian.mingus at colorado.edu> wrote:

> I propose we run a study. We will survey random editors and ask them if
> they realize that there is a chance they are leaking enough information for
> their identity to be revealed. *Even if they are logged in.*
>
> Regarding comparisons - institutions have structure, and if there is a
> structure mapping, then it's a matter of fact. A given mapping will have
> strengths and weaknesses. You may prefer one mapping to another. If you
> have reasons for preferring one mapping (other than that it offends you),
> I'm all ears. But be aware: simply changing the vocabulary that you use to
> describe the space doesn't mean that two different descriptions of
> institutions aren't in fact describing a construct that is more similar
> than different, or that is similar in important ways.
>
> This is all to say, there are often reasons that institutions like the NSA
> and WMF are structured the way they are. Given the investment in the topic,
> it's probably worth exploring how the institutional structures emerged. But
> given the investment, confirmation bias may prevail in this case: even if
> there are important similarities, nobody wants to look like a hypocrite.
>
> That's OK, though. Much as I am invested in Wikipedia and appreciate the
> WMF, if I turn out to be a hypocrite, *I* will call myself one. Just as I
> will do it to others.
>
> Best,
>
> Brian
>
> "*Other dogs bite only their enemies, whereas I bite also my friends.*" -
> Diogenes the Cynic
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 10:32 AM, Oliver Keyes <okeyes at wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Or perhaps you're reading far too much into it, and in the process,
> > being incredibly rude to the WMF employees reading this thread, who
> > are people too, and don't particularly appreciate being compared to
> > the NSA. If you're trying to have a constructive discussion, you
> > should pick a better format and attitude.
> >
> > On 29 March 2015 at 19:02, Brian J Mingus <brian.mingus at colorado.edu>
> > wrote:
> > > The notice just says that the IP is public. Most people have no idea
> what
> > > that means.
> > >
> > > It will absolutely make those problems harder. Perhaps it is the
> > > Foundation's trusted role to hide that information from the public and
> be
> > > trusted with it on the backend. This institutional design sounds
> similar
> > to
> > > another institution in certain ways..
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 6:58 PM, Dustin Muniz <dahowe at bsugmail.net>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > >> People are made aware with each edit as an I am that their information
> > is
> > >> publicly available. What concerns me about removing IP information is
> > that
> > >> it'll remove our ability to fight spam, detect socks, and respond to
> > >> emergency@ issues, unless I've missed something?
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Sent from Samsung Mobile
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -------- Original message --------
> > >> From: Brian J Mingus
> > >> Date:03-29-2015 4:36 PM (GMT-05:00)
> > >> To: David Carson
> > >> Cc: English Wikipedia
> > >> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Privacy Study Looking for Volunteers
> > >>
> > >> Wikipedia is set up such that if you don't take the measures mentioned
> > in
> > >> the OP, you are dox'ing yourself. Users are not aware of this.
> > >>
> > >> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 4:33 PM, David Carson <carson63000 at gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > "Wikipedia:Free speech" (
> > >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_speech) is probably
> > worth a
> > >> > read.
> > >> >
> > >> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Free_speech
> > >> >
> > >> > It's not directly about privacy but I think it clearly covers the
> > ground
> > >> > that Wikipedia is a project to create an online encyclopedia, not an
> > >> > experiment in radical free speech. The system is set up to
> facilitate
> > >> that
> > >> > goal.
> > >> >
> > >> > If you think that recording IP addresses is invasive, then you
> should
> > >> > probably be publishing your content on your own website, not
> > Wikipedia.
> > >> >
> > >> > Cheers,
> > >> > David...
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2015 at 5:10 AM, Brian J Mingus <
> > >> brian.mingus at colorado.edu
> > >> > > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> >> In general people do not read privacy policies, nor do they
> > understand
> > >> >> what
> > >> >> IP addresses are or what you can do with them.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> But if you recall, I simply stated that recording IP addresses is
> > >> >> invasive.
> > >> >> And it is.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> This is especially true when you know that your recordings are
> > >> faciliating
> > >> >> the active de-anonymization of people who are editing Wikipedia.
> Not
> > >> just
> > >> >> de-anonymization, but often public shaming.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> For WMF, the principle of neutrality clearly trumps the principles
> of
> > >> >> privacy and free speech. For the NSA, substitute security for
> > >> neutrality.
> > >> >> It's hypocritical.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Luckily, it's easy to fix. Just stuff the ip fields with random
> > numbers
> > >> >> and
> > >> >> deal with the fallout. Stop tracking people.
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 2:02 PM, Oliver Keyes <
> okeyes at wikimedia.org>
> > >> >> wrote:
> > >> >>
> > >> >> > In order:
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > 1. Yes, the WMF is suing the NSA. There are a few threads/blog
> > posts
> > >> >> > about this people here can point you to.
> > >> >> > 2. Brian: The NSA needs to store data without the permission or
> > >> >> > consent of the people generating it, sometimes through forcible
> > >> >> > interception, decryption and the introduction and maintenance of
> > >> >> > software exploits that allow them to do this but also allow any
> > other
> > >> >> > reasonably technical nation or non-nation actor who is paying
> > >> >> > attention to exploit the same vulnerability, keeping this data
> for
> > an
> > >> >> > indefinite period, with very little legal or political oversight,
> > in
> > >> >> > order to stop terrorism, where very little evidence exists that
> > this
> > >> >> > has helped in any way.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > The WMF needs to store data for a 90 day period, which is
> > explicitly
> > >> >> > set down in a privacy policy that is transparent, human-readable,
> > >> >> > linked from every edit interface, written with the involvement of
> > the
> > >> >> > people whose data is being stored, administered by a committee of
> > >> >> > people who come from this population of editors, and explicitly
> > sets
> > >> >> > out what the data may or may not be used for, even within the
> > >> >> > Wikimedia Foundation, in order to stop vandalism, where multiple
> > >> >> > scientific studies have validated the hypothesis that being able
> to
> > >> >> > make rangeblocks and prohibit sockpuppetry is beneficial to the
> > >> >> > community we are all a part of and the wider population of
> readers.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > That's what's actually going on, here. If you thing these
> > situations
> > >> >> > are roughly analogous, that's your prerogative. If you think the
> > >> >> > storage of this data is unnecessary, I recommend you go to your
> > local
> > >> >> > project and explain to them that being able to checkuser
> potential
> > >> >> > sockpuppets or hard-block users is not needed: gaining consensus
> > there
> > >> >> > would be a good starting point to changing this.
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > On 29 March 2015 at 11:57, James Farrar <james.farrar at gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> >> > > Wikipedia is suing the NSA? Seriously?
> > >> >> > > On 28 Mar 2015 11:23, "Brian J Mingus" <
> > brian.mingus at colorado.edu>
> > >> >> > wrote:
> > >> >> > >
> > >> >> > >> It has worked up to now, but I'm thinking that, especially
> given
> > >> >> > Wikimedia
> > >> >> > >> is suing the NSA, it is no longer justifiable. If the NSA
> can't
> > >> track
> > >> >> > >> citizens, Wikimedia shouldn't be tracking them either. Seems
> > simple
> > >> >> :)
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> On Thu, Mar 26, 2015 at 2:56 PM, Francesco Ariis <
> > fa-ml at ariis.it>
> > >> >> > wrote:
> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > >> > On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 01:19:35PM -0400, Brian J Mingus
> > wrote:
> > >> >> > >> > > I think it's rather curious that edits to Wikipedia aren't
> > >> >> private.
> > >> >> > Why
> > >> >> > >> > log
> > >> >> > >> > > the IP address? Why log anything? It's invasive.
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> > I guess it's a sensible choice against abuse (vandalism)
> while
> > >> >> still
> > >> >> > >> > allowing non registered users editing rights
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> > _______________________________________________
> > >> >> > >> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > >> >> > >> > WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > >> >> > >> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > >> >> > >> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >> >> > >> >
> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________
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> > >> >> > >>
> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> > --
> > >> >> > Oliver Keyes
> > >> >> > Research Analyst
> > >> >> > Wikimedia Foundation
> > >> >> >
> > >> >> _______________________________________________
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> > >> >> WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
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> > >> >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
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> > >>
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> >
> >
> > --
> > Oliver Keyes
> > Research Analyst
> > Wikimedia Foundation
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
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