[WikiEN-l] Tabloid sources (was Wikipedia leadership})

Fri Feb 4 15:08:08 UTC 2011

Note that the statement about Pinkett-Smith I quoted in the previous post 
was not sourced to radaronline.com, but to the West Australian, a Perth 
newspaper. 

What is sourced to radaronline.com 

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2009/08/exclusive-will-jada-new-school-head-practiced-scientology

in the [[New Village Leadership Academy]] article is the statement that the 
school principal, Piano Foster, has "Scientology associations". Radar in 
turn sources this to what it calls "an official Scientology list". In fact, 
this is a private website, truthaboutscientology.com, which since a recent 
AE thread is no longer considered a reliable source in Wikipedia. The site 
says the woman once did a Scientology course (Basic Study Manual). Sorry for 
the mix-up.

Here are some other uses of radaronline.com:

- Used in the [[Rachel Uchitel]] BLP to state that she was photographed 
entering Tiger Woods's room.

- Used in [[Celebrity Rehab with Dr. Drew]] to state that "On August 31, 
RadarOnline reported that Rachel Uchitel, who had been living at a sober 
living facility in Malibu, California, left the facility with Dr. Pinsky's 
permission in order to visit the World Trade Center site, where her fiance, 
James Andrew O'Grady, was killed during the September 11, 2001 attacks."

- Used in [[Dancing with the Stars (U.S. season 9)]] to state that "During 
rehearsal on September 28, Lacey Schwimmer "severely strained" her hip 
flexors and abductors. Her injuries required 3 weeks of physical therapy. 
She continued to dance on the show during her treatments."

- Used in the [[Brian Gazer]] BLP, along with primary court sources, to 
provide a detailed financial breakdown of Gazer's divorce settlement. 

- Used in [[Suleman octuplets]] as a source for stating that the octuplets' 
grandmother has complained that "her daughter does not contribute toward 
housing or food costs".

- Used in the [[Brittany CoxXx]] BLP to state that 'Borat's producers first 
contacted [Stonie's Manager, David Forest] in June 2005, he tells Radar. 
"They wanted to find someone who would look 13 or 14 but was actually of 
legal age and would do frontal nudity," he recalls. Cortez immediately 
sprang to mind, he says, because "he's a small-framed boy but has a large 
organ." How large? "About eight inches, and thick."'

We have a policy about not spreading gossip, but I see little evidence that 
we adhere to it.

Andreas

--- On Fri, 4/2/11, Andreas Kolbe <jayen466 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> From: Andreas Kolbe <jayen466 at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Tabloid sources  (was Wikipedia leadership})
> To: "English Wikipedia" <wikien-l at lists.wikimedia.org>
> Date: Friday, 4 February, 2011, 13:25
> --- On Fri, 4/2/11, wiki <doc.wikipedia at ntlworld.com>
> wrote:
> > From: wiki <doc.wikipedia at ntlworld.com>
> > OK, let's take a case in point: Prem Rawat
> > 
> > Jimbo recently added into the lead "Rawat has often
> been
> > termed a cult
> > leader in popular press report, as well as
> [[anti-cult]]
> > writings" - stating
> > "This is, without a doubt, the most important thing
> readers
> > need to know". 
> > 
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Prem_Rawat&diff=411493466&oldid=40
> > 5705319 
> > 
> > The citations he provided for the "popular press" were
> from
> > "Brisbane
> > Courier-Mail" and "The London Courier-Standard". Now,
> > neither could be
> > deemed "expert sources". If we want to label the chap
> a
> > cultist, we'd want a
> > neutral academic or some authority. Not the writings
> of
> > journalists who tend
> > to recycle, sensationalise, and do little research.
> Anyone
> > who's been
> > involved in a newstory that's been reported even in
> quality
> > papers, knows
> > that daily newscycle journalists do piss-poor
> research,
> > dreadful
> > fact-checking, and drastic oversimplifications. Having
> said
> > that, Jimbo's
> > addition is perfectly true, he's often been termed a
> "cult
> > leader" in the
> > popular press. The question is, is Wikipedia in the
> > business of reporting
> > what is "often said" or what is "reliably,
> authoritively,
> > or neutrally
> > said"? I guess I'm unsure.
> >  
> > The other half of Jimbo's insertion concerns
> "[[anti-cult]]
> > writings".
> > Again, these sources are perfectly reliable as to
> what
> > "anti-cult" people
> > are saying. But they are also highly partisan sources.
> The
> > sources in this
> > case are "Bob Larson" and "Ron Rhodes" both
> evangelical
> > Christians. (NB, the
> > editor who pointed this out, has since been banned for
> his
> > troubles:
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php
> >
> title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=411950776#Momento)
> > 
> > Again, "what the critics say" isn't a bad thing to
> include.
> > But perhaps the
> > labels applied by Larson and Rhodes are given undue
> weight,
> > when included so
> > prominently in the lead.
> > 
> > The effect of this inclusion in the first paragraph,
> is to
> > invite the reader
> > to conclude "everyone says he's a cultist". That may
> be
> > true, and "the most
> > important thing readers need to know" - but is this
> really
> > neutrality? Are
> > we using sources appropriately? Again, I'm unsure.
> 
> 
> As the freshly-banned user pointed out on Jimbo's talk
> page, Bob Larson is 
> famous for doing "exorcisms on air":
> 
> http://www.boblarson.org/
> 
> Have a look, it's good fun. I am not sure if that is in any
> way, shape or 
> form an encyclopedic source though. 
> 
> Here is another example. The article on "New Village
> Leadership Academy" 
> sources the following statement to this website:
> 
> http://www.radaronline.com/
> 
> Again, have a look at the site. An encyclopedic source? 
> 
> This is the statement concerned that we have in our
> article:
> 
> ---o0o---
> 
> Cales stated: "Will Smith and Jada Pinkett Smith, an
> admitted Scientologist, 
> have opened this private school as a front for teaching the
> L. Ron Hubbard 
> principles of 'Study Technology, his creation, and the
> school employs 
> Scientologists. Our goal is to ultimately have the tax
> exemption status of 
> the Scientology cult end, and the criminal deeds of Church
> leader David 
> Miscaviage [sic] be exposed and prosecuted."[24]
> 
> ---o0o---
> 
> Now, Jada Pinkett-Smith is on record as stating that she is
> not a 
> Scientologist. Here is a quote:
> 
> ---o0o---
> 
> Another subject she wants to set straight: persistent
> rumors that she and 
> her husband are Scientologists, like their good friend Tom
> Cruise. She 
> emphatically denies it, and she admits she thought it was a
> weird religion -
> - until she met Cruise. "I'm not saying that I'm not a
> Scientologist because 
> I think something's wrong with Scientology -- I want to be
> really clear 
> about that," Jada says. But, she adds, "In knowing Tom, I
> realize it is a 
> religion just like other religions. Tom is happy. And he is
> one of the 
> greatest men I know."
> 
> http://www.usaweekend.com/article/20090628/ENTERTAINMENT01/91026005/Jada-sets-the-record-straight
> 
> ---o0o---
> 
> Needless to say, Pinkett-Smith was listed for ages in our
> List of 
> Scientologists, along with Chaka Khan, Gloria Gaynor and
> other 
> non-Scientologists. 
> 
> Andreas