[WikiEN-l] A war on external links? Was: Inside Higher Ed: Does Wikipedia Suck?

[David Goodman]

There are other things to do short of that.
1. try to change the interpretation of NOT DIRECTORY and the EL policy
to permit a section of links with more generous standards.
2. try to get a policy for  adding a subpage for links to articles
3. run a mirror of the project, with  links added, which is easier &
better  than a true fork where the articles diverge.

David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG



On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at fairpoint.net> wrote:
> I think the point is to use editorial judgment with respect to what
> external links and further reading are worthwhile.
>
> My experience is that very good links regularly get axed. And there is
> little you can do other than to fork the project if you don't like it.
>
> Fred Bauder
>
>> On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 4:39 AM, Charles Matthews
>> <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>> Of your three points, I don't really find anything to agree with.
>>> Taking
>>> the attitide that "External links" is the name of a "Further reading"
>>> section for reading that happens to be online, what exactly _are_ you
>>> arguing? That trawling through the first hundred hits on well-known
>>> search engines will always produce those links? That is easy to refute.
>>> For many sites of high academic value, precisely no (zero) SEO is done.
>>> I can easily think of examples. Very good links can be very hard to
>>> find, unless you have a good reason to suspect they are there.
>>
>> High value links should always be provided.  Can you provide an
>> reference to a Wikimedian arguing that links to the most useful
>> additional resources shouldn't be provided?   I'll gladly go and
>> disagree with them.
>>
>>
>> But I do believe that  a list of, say, 50 links tagged onto the end of
>> an article typically has negative value for the following reasons:
>> * Readers will be inundated, no one is likely to follow more than a
>> couple so the very high value links will be lost in the less valuable
>> ones.
>> * Wikipedia editors are unlikely periodically review links in a large
>> collection (supported by the high density of dead links, and the
>> malicious sites I've found in prior scans of our internals links).
>> * Long lists provide plausible denyability for someone attempting to
>> profit by placement, as additions to link soup doesn't look suspect.
>> * Someone looking for a large collection of assorted links on a
>> subject can find a larger and more current list from any of the search
>> providers.
>>
>>> Given your style of argument, which is that we should be relying on the
>>> utility of commercial entities over which we have no control at all, to
>>> help our readers find the further information that we know (because WP
>>> does not aim to give complete coverage) they will need, I would say
>>> that
>>> Fred's worries are amply justified.
>>
>> I bothered making the argument here because I believed that Fred was
>> likely mischaracterizing the nuanced position people have taking in
>> trying to balance the value of additional links vs their cost as a
>> simple "war on external links", when no one was likely carrying on any
>> such war:  Just because someone has decided on a different benefit
>> trade-off than you doesn't make their activities a "war on all X".
>>
>> I wish there were a usable non-commercial search engine. But Wikipedia
>> clearly isn't that.  Wikipedia's value is in human editorial review.
>> A search engine's value is in enormous scale automation, "machine
>> neutrality" (not the google results are neutral, but it is resistant
>> to many kinds of bias which wikipedia is not), and automated updates.
>> Everyone on the internet already has access to high quality search
>> engines. I just don't think that making Wikipedia into a poor search
>> engine at the expensive of diluting the selectivity is a net positive
>> for the reader.
>>
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