[WikiEN-l] Admin / experienced user flameout - how do we talk people down off the ledge?

[Newyorkbrad]

This particular situation is now the subject of a pending request for
arbitration, so I'll comment on that on-wiki (probably in the morning), but
my comments there may have some relevance to the broader issue being raised
here.

Newyorkbrad

On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 8:50 PM, David Goodman <dgoodmanny at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes, AN / ANI is   part of the problem. The formal procedures of arb
> com and the consideration by a small group of highly selected very
> experienced people who devote almost their full wiki-time to it,
> result after weeks or months of discussion at the most in desysop, a
> one year block, and a topic ban.   The informal never-codified
> procedures at AN & ANI with judgement rendered by whomever care to do
> so after a moment;'s thought among   the 700 more or less active
> admins, can result after a few hours  in permanent bans.  When arb com
> asks for arb enforcement in an ongoing issue, they limit it typically
> to blocks of one week, slowly progressing upwards. At ANI, there's no
> limit. Because of this sort of problem, we long ago rejected a
> community sanctions noticeboard after a brief test for the perceived
> injustice of its over hasty procedure. But it seems to have crept in
> again.
>
> We have a standard question for admin candidates, what is the
> difference between a ban and a block, for which the only approved
> answer is, that a ban is a block that no admin is willing to reverse.
> If that were followed, it would limit the bans to the undoubted
> trolls.  But it is not: a ban at present is whenver a group at ANI can
> get temporary consensus to have one.  This is rough justice running
> amock.
>
> I have previous expressed some discontent  with a good deal of arb
> com's work, but most of it has been when they shortcut their own
> procedure--they too have been carried away by the rush to dispose of
> problems quickly rather than fairly.   Even at their worst, though,
> they do better than the recent verdicts by the community at ANI. We
> seem to have adopted the Red Queen's Rule: whoever executes someone
> first settles the case.
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 11, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Fred Bauder <fredbaud at fairpoint.net>
> wrote:
> > It is likely the reason he got into trouble was because he wasn't
> > confident that others would back him up, so he did it himself. Which is,
> > of course, the third rail. What is missing is the knowledge that
> > sometimes, even if you are "right", others will not, for one reason or
> > another, not back you up and you will fail. And can't do anything about
> > it.
> >
> > Fred
> >
> >> Admin Rodhullandemu just retired after being blocked for blocking
> >> Malleus Fautorum to win a dispute
> >>
> >> For reference:
> >>
> https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard#Block_review
> >>
> >> On and off wiki I have mentioned before that we are really bad, as a
> >> project, at identifying people who have worked themselves into an
> >> angry corner and feel that they must blow up and leave, and then
> >> talking them down and defusing the situation.  This is in my
> >> experience the typical (or at least, a major and common) exit mode of
> >> longtime highly involved contributors.
> >>
> >> Our existing policy and precedent really don't address this problem.
> >> We have had individual admins and experienced editors spot the pattern
> >> start and work to calm situations down on an individual basis, with
> >> mixed results.  But typically the pattern is not really recognized
> >> until it's too late.
> >>
> >> Posed for consideration - This is a problem worth putting more time
> >> and effort into, and which the project will benefit significantly from
> >> getting right over the long term.
> >>
> >> The question is - what exactly do we do about it?
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> -george william herbert
> >> george.herbert at gmail.com
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
> >
> >
> >
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>
>
> --
> David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG
>
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