[WikiEN-l] Invitation for review

[Carcharoth]

On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 6:35 PM, Nathan <nawrich at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Sep 28, 2009 at 4:42 AM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:
>> George Herbert wrote:
>>> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 2:05 PM, Nathan <nawrich at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is a mailing list for block reviews, this isn't it. We also
>>>> don't usually get into discussing specific content issues here unless
>>>> there is a point of wider significance to the encyclopedia.
>>>>
>>>> You believe Holocaust denial can only be defined using the separate
>>>> definitions of "Holocaust" and "denial", and want the article to
>>>> reflect your definition. Others state (correctly) that the term
>>>> "Holocaust denial" taken as a whole is used to refer specifically to
>>>> denial of the Holocaust of Jews (Shoah). Perhaps if we try to glean
>>>> wider significance from this incident, it would be in the area of
>>>> dealing with specious arguments from editors of long tenure who have
>>>> become sophisticated in their misuse of dispute processes.
>>>>
>>> This dispute looks either like some combination of original research,
>>> disruption, or possibly active but intellectual support of holocaust
>>> denialists.
>>>
>> Original research perhaps; disruption perhaps, but it is dishonest to
>> call it "intellectual support of holocaust denialists."  Expanding a
>> term to a wider application certainly does not equate to holocaust
>> denial.  It merely recognizes the plain fact that those who deny the
>> suffering of other victims than the dominant group are just as guilty of
>> denying the Holocaust.
>>
>> I don't dispute that the Jews were the dominant victims of the
>> Holocaust, but it is extremely disturbing when some appear to abuse that
>> dominance to minimize the suffering of others.  That the victimized Jews
>> were more numerous than the others increases the likelihood that they
>> have relatives to write about them. The higher value that Jews attach to
>> literacy also increases the same likelihood.  Gays had a much lower
>> number of progeny to write on their behalf.  So I fully expect that more
>> will be written by Jews about Jews, but the smaller numbers of others
>> does not make the fate of those others any less tragic.
>>
> This is an amazing thing you've written. I've read your posts for
> perhaps two years, but I will read all future comments in an entirely
> new light.

I'm not endorsing what anyone has said in this thread (I think Ray put
things the way he did very clumsily), but it doesn't take much
Googling to find seemingly reputable sources on stuff related to this
(I searched for "overemphasis" and "Holocaust"):

http://www.google.co.uk/#hl=en&source=hp&q=overemphasis+holocaust&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&aq=f&oq=overemphasis+holocaust&fp=5328dbdaa6a8f0fa

Now, among those are the usual suspects of far-right and other
anti-semitic groups, but also some that are superficially, or
actually, reputable.

First the superficially reputable one:

http://www.h-net.org/announce/show.cgi?ID=131913

"Critical Holocaust Anthology"

"Today, the language of the holocaust cannot be understood apart from
the Jewish experience. Historically, this argument is suspect, if not
inadequate. The intent of this proposed anthology is to understand why
this national investment is made and to what extent these terms impact
debates concerning genocide beyond the Jewish community. [...]"

However, further searching seems to indicate this anthology was never
published (or if it was, that it was not widely reviewed or
well-received). That call for papers was dated 2003, but was
circulating earlier as well. I found a criticism of it here:

http://www.atlanticblog.com/archives/000104.html

Moving on to something that (to my mind) is more clearly reputable:

http://www.cambridge.org/us/catalogue/catalogue.asp?isbn=052138057X

"After Tragedy and Triumph - Essays in Modern Jewish Thought and the
American Experience"

[Published November 1990]

"The story of American Jewry is inextricably entwined with the awesome
defeat of the Holocaust and the rebirth of the state of Israel.
However, for Michael Berenbaum, and others of his generation, whose
adult consciousness included the war in Lebanon and the Palestinian
Uprisings, the tale is more anguished [...]"

Chapter 4 is titled: "Is the centrality of the Holocaust
overemphasised? Two dialogues".

We have an article on the author of that book, Berenbaum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Berenbaum

Another article he has written is here:

http://giving.ajula.edu/Content/ContentUnit.asp?CID=982&u=4444&t=0

"The Complexity of the Jewish Narrative in Our Times"