[WikiEN-l] Wikimedian image restorations exploited on eBay

[Durova]

A small group of people do digital image restoration regularly; we can hold
focused discussions among ourselves.  Perhaps there's a large gap in base
knowledge between us and Wikimedians in general because when we bring
concerns to a wider forum the discussion usually gets derailed.

Not derailed in a malicious sense; derailed because there isn't enough
shared agreement to communicate.  It's as if two groups came together to
discuss geometry and didn't realize they meant different geometries.  Your
previous post was like asking whether I had come here to discuss the
parallel lines postulate.  That's an "aha" moment which shows the Euclideans
were scratching their heads while I was discussing spherical planes.

It is eye-opening to see the assumptions that get put forward.  Possibly the
best thing that can come out of our discussion is to step back and examine
what this tells about the audience.  Your points are numbered and
articulate, but I hesitate to answer them as framed.  It's like asking about
"flatness" when you're certain parallel lines never meet and I'm
specifically discussing a situation where they do.

The *Signpost* has an open request for editorials.  I'll be drafting
something for them.  It won't answer your questions directly, but it will
explain the underlying importance of *access*.  That's absolutely essential
for historic media discussions.  Think of *provenance* as a proof that
derives from *access*.

-Durova

On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Steve Bennett <stevagewp at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Durova <nadezhda.durova at gmail.com> wrote:
> > That question has already been answered several times, in several ways.
>  I
> > am at a loss for how to restate it, and the insinuation posed alongside
> the
> > question discourages further attempt.
>
> Ok, I've read through all your posts on this thread again, and here's
> are the points I see you making:
>
> 1) You do restorations of images and they take a lot of time and effort.
> 2) People have advised you to claim copyright/left over those
> restorations, but you resist doing so because it may harm the copyleft
> movement in general.
> 3) People are selling some of your images on eBay without crediting
> you, which you feel breaches your "moral rights".
> 4) Physical restoration and digital restoration are very different,
> and it is difficult to define exactly how much effort should be put
> into a digital restoration for it to count as a creative work in its
> own right.
> 5) Some discussion about how best to carry out certain restorations,
> which isn't relevant here.
>
> I have made the following point:
> 1) The two images in question that I looked at were both clearly
> marked "public domain", with the clear assertion that anyone could
> reuse these images for any purpose whatsoever. Further, the images
> neither clearly asserted you as the creator, nor requested (let alone,
> demanded) that people attribute you (or anyone) as an author.
>
> I'm sorry if I'm being obtuse or dense here, but I don't see how
> you've addressed my question, which is, in its simplest form: why do
> you think the eBay vendor in question is at fault? They took an image
> clearly marked "public domain", with no authorship information or
> request for attribution, printed it and sold it, well within their
> rights.
>
> To state my position even more clearly:
> 1) I'm on your side. I think you're doing a great job restoring
> valuable images for Wikipedia and the wider community.
> 2) It seems ethical to me that a person should acknowledge the hard
> work someone has put into producing the work that they are now
> profiting from, but I have no idea of the legalities.
> 3) I think your position would be a lot stronger if the image pages in
> question identified you more clearly or asserted your request for
> acknowledgement.
>
> Is the issue that you want acknowledgement but don't want to assert
> authorship? How do you expect end reusers of your content to figure it
> out?
>
> I hope this isn't a flamewar, I really want to figure out where you're
> coming from so perhaps we can offer some useful advice or help in some
> way.
>
> Steve
>
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http://durova.blogspot.com/