[WikiEN-l] Secondary sources

[Surreptitiousness]

Carl (CBM) wrote:
>> It seems that a lot of people are prone to gaming source levels to suit their own objectives.
>>     
>
> Yes, this happens quite often. It's partially a consequence of certain
> policies, such as WP:N, directly referring to "secondary sources",
> even when this is not the right metric. For example, one reason that
> people want to count contemporary newspaper articles as secondary
> sources is to establish notability immediately for contemporary
> events, without waiting a year for better sources to develop.
>   
We need to go back to the old rubicon of "reliable sources".  The idea 
of primary and secondary sources is one which causes too much confusion 
on Wikipedia because these terms rely on context.  When I quote some 
historian they becomes a primary source.  When I summarise their work 
they are a secondary source.  A newspaper can be a primary and a 
secondary source, whether it was published today or 100 years ago.  It's 
a primary source for how things were reported at the time, but it is a 
secondary source for the events themselves.  Nobody would regard  a 
newspaper report of the assassination of Lincoln as a primary source for 
the actual assassination, but they would regard it a reliable source for 
information on the assassination, and really, that should be all that 
matters to us.  I agree that the notability guidance makes things a lot 
harder for us, but that's because people seem to have misunderstood its 
purpose, or I seem to have misunderstood its goal when I was framing 
half of it.  It's supposed to be there to stop us writing about stuff 
no-one independent of the thing itself has written about, but it has 
meandered far from that purpose to become something we simply argue 
about and fail to understand. It would be easier if we got rid of it and 
relied instead on stripped back versions of WP:V, WP:NOR WP:NPOV and 
WP:COI, but there's too much invested in the way we are now to ever go 
back.  Isn't there some curse somewhere about the road to hell.  I 
certainly regret my good intentions regarding notability. I have found 
it easier to ignore notability, follow what I think the spirit of WP:V, 
WP:NOR WP:NPOV and WP:COI are and not get waylaid by too much drama, but 
I've learnt to run away when drama ensues and let time sort it 
out.What's that other maxim about the best way to defeat your enemies is 
to outlast them?