[WikiEN-l] Talking to Jimmy Wales about discussion

[Will]

I emailed Jimmy Wales about adding a "real" discussion function to
Wikipedia. He suggested that I post to this mailing list to start a
discussion. Below are the 4 emails we exchanged. What do you think?

1. My initial email:
--------------------------------
Hi,

This is Will. I am the co-founder of Nabble, a project for making
discussions better.

I have been following the discussions on the wikia mailing list
(http://n2.nabble.com/Wikia-Search-f738587.html). I like your product
design work and philosophy, for example, "avoid excessive a priori
thinking", we do the same in our work.

I write to you because you don't seem to care much about discussions.
On Wikipedia, the "discussion" tab is ubiquitous, but you don't allow
people to discuss the subject there because discussions can ONLY be
about improving the main page.

This rule sounds arbitrary. Why can't a I ask a question about the
subject there? You have many experts and  fellow users visiting the
same page, wouldn't it be good if they can talk and socialize and help
each other out? Communities grow there. You can have a separate
discussion area dedicated to editors. But currently it's all editors.
What's more, the design of the discussion function is so wiki-centric,
you probably designed it on purpose in order to keep the regular guys
out. You seem to be missing a community opportunity here.

I hope to continue this conversation, if you are interested...

Regards,
Will


2. Jimmy Wales' response:
--------------------------------
I think you're just mistaken.  On the main page, the discussion is
about the main page.  On every other page, the discussion is about the
subject.

Or wait, maybe you aren't mistaken but just I am confused by your
terminology.  When we say "main page" we are always referring to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

But maybe you are making a more subtle point about the distinction
between "article space" and "talk space"?

So, you are asking, why can't I just ask a question about Thomas
Jefferson, here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Thomas_Jefferson

Is that right?

Well, because that's not what we *do*.  Nor is it something we want to do.

We care about community, but the community is always subordinate to
the goals of the community.  Being a general chat board is a good
thing for... general chat boards.

At Wikia, we do support those.


3. My response:
--------------------------------
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I made at least ten drafts
for this reply. I hope you see my point.

> So, you are asking, why can't I just ask a question about Thomas Jefferson, here:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Thomas_Jefferson

> Is that right?

Yes. You got my point.  Asking questions and debating and watching
other people ask and debate is a crucial part of learning. Have you
ever learned a subject by just reading an article? For example, you
can read an article on breast cancer, but if your wife has it, then
you WILL have tons of questions, few of which are addressed by that
article. Similarly, you can read the article on SEO, but if you are a
web start-up that needs it, then you will have questions.

Learning is called "学问" in Chinese. 学 means to "study", and  问 means
to "question". Wikipedia has 学 but not 问. I am not just being
philosophical here. I am a practical guy and I use wikipedia a lot.
Right now I do the 问 part in other places, but you could have me
easily. It will be a natural addition to Wikipedia.

> We care about community, but the community is always subordinate to
> the goals of the community.

You are saying that your goal is to create an encyclopedia and there
is nothing else to it, right? You can always reject a new idea by
stating an old goal. I say it's an old goal because it was already
achieved a few years ago. Wiki is already history as Wikipedia has
done nothing new since you started working on search engines.

Maybe we can ask what is the goal of an encyclopedia? If you see it
along the lines of learning (学问), then you will see my point as
relevant. Otherwise, nice talking to you. I appreciate you actually
get back to me.

4. Jimmy Wales' response:
--------------------------------
:-)  It is very interesting, and is affecting my thinking.  But of
course decisions like this are not up to me really.  They are more up
to the community... you might want to start a discussion on wikien-l.