[WikiEN-l] [Foundation-l] Lobby takeover of wikimedia projects, particularly English wikipedia

[Chris Hair]

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Though I understand your intentions and support them 100%, I don't think
that your suggestion for the foundation to pass a ruling is the right
thing to do. Ignoring the fact that you called it a "takeover" by
lobbies (remember that almost all governments have these, and it is not
considered a takeover by most people), this is what I see wrong with the
proposal.

The problem with your suggestion is that we as a community can't make a
distinction between lobby groups and just groups. Groups can be highly
beneficial, which is why we have Wikiprojects, etc., that people sign up
for and collaborate on. On the other hand, lobbying groups are
considered bad, but only in the sense that they are POV pushers. I would
even go as far as saying that lobbying groups might even be good, if
used and constrained properly, and edited for NPOV.

But where do we draw the line? Editors with good intentions might be
punished, while if you are trying to hide, it is quite easy if only one
edit is controversial out of over one hundred.

The only thing that we can maintain is NPOV. We just have to remember
not to yield to admins if they are pushing their POV, even if there are
many admins on that side, and to resolve dispute cases when they arise.
We can't ban groups, because we would be fighting forever over what
constitutes a lobbying group versus a normal, beneficial group. We can't
do anything about people forming groups, so we just have to play the
game we've always played- NPOV.

- -Hairchrm

White Cat wrote:
> Although it is a well known issue, this issue has finally made its way to
> spotlight with the ongoing CAMERA incident on English wikipedia... I am sure
> English wikipedia's arbcom will come up with a reasonable conclusion and the
> purpose of this email is not related to the CAMERA arbcom case directly.
> 
> Due to the very nature of wikis they are very open to outside interference
> and manipulation. Although there had been many discussions on the matter,
> they never generated the intended level of brainstorming.
> 
> I am sure someone can provide a brief history of past external manipulations
> so I will avoid listing them on this email.
> 
> You may be under the false impression that large wikis such as en.wikipedia
> is invulnerable to such attacks, but this would be a fatal mistake. English
> wikipedia is probably the most vulnerable language edition of wikipedia. If
> a lobby group were to secure some 10 admin accounts they can effectively
> overwhelm any process we have on English Wikipedia.
> 
> So lets discuss possible solutions and precautions.
> 
> I recommend that foundation pass a ruling on the matter of lobby takeovers.
> Although it goes without saying along with NPOV, spelling it out has
> benefits and no harm. This way we can more easily and promptly purge them on
> wikis that did not have a serious conversation on this matter enough to come
> up with a policy.
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