[WikiEN-l] Another rule literalism problem

[David Goodman]

There are thousands of cases where a mistranslation or
mistransliteration has caused the standard English name for a
character or book or place or name to be different than in the
original. That's why we need a rule, and have one, to avoid arguing
over he merits of each individual instance. Once a mistake has been
adopted in the english language, there it is. When the standard
changes, as it sometimes does, in response to increased knowledge or a
desire for increased precision, then we change it here.
The point of a manual of style is to avoid these discussion every time
or we'd spend all our efforts on this, instead of substantial content.

On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 1:33 PM, George Herbert
<george.herbert at gmail.com> wrote:
> We have the flip side of this in another article, where a firearms
> enthusiast is going ballistic over usage of the term "clip" as a
> synonym for "magazine" in firearms.  He is technically correct - in
> the engineering sense, a "clip" is a different type of hardware used
> for a slightly different thing.  But common usage has blurred the line
> and they're used interchangably by a large portion of people with
> firearms.
>
> He wants to stand on principle and deprecate "clip" as a synonym,
> despite its widespread common usage.  We keep telling him that that's
> not how Wikipedia works - we reflect common usage, and report where
> technically correct terminology differs.  But he's riding the line on
> abusive behavior trying to keep it out.
>
>
> -george
>
> On Wed, Jun 25, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Delirium <delirium at hackish.org> wrote:
>> Ken Arromdee wrote:
>>> Besides, you're choosing a very strained interpretation of the rule.  I
>>> would say that a "common English name" is a word that has become part of
>>> the English language, and can be found in dictionaries and similar places.
>>> A character or a sword in a manga would have no common English name at all.
>>>
>> Well, it can also include translated proper names, not just things that
>> have become part of the English language and show up in dictionaries.
>> The "use common names" rule is strongest when something /actually/ has a
>> common English name, though.
>>
>> In cases where a particular English translation is well established, we
>> use it even if it could be argued that it's somehow "wrong"---for
>> example not everyone is happy with the title [[The Stranger (novel)]] as
>> a translation, but it's so well established as to be obviously the right
>> place to put the article. The same goes for lots of other novels, works
>> of philosophy, etc., that have conventional but in one way or another
>> "wrong" English translations to which a minority of people virulently
>> object. In a different example, we also tend to use Western name order
>> for famous individuals who are conventionally referred to in that order
>> in English media, and use nonstandard transliterations of personal names
>> if they've become standard in English for that person.
>>
>> In the case of this sword, though, it'd be hard to argue that there's a
>> particularly "common" translation or "standard" English name, so some
>> sort of more systematic/mechanical transliteration is probably best.
>> That's also what we also do with more obscure real people who don't have
>> clearly established English versions of their names.
>>
>> -Mark
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> -george william herbert
> george.herbert at gmail.com
>
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-- 
David Goodman, Ph.D, M.L.S.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:DGG