[WikiEN-l] Misogyny is the perfect troll

[Ray Saintonge]

Florence Devouard wrote:
> Ray Saintonge wrote:
>   
>> K P wrote:
>>     
>>> My comment wasn't really about this particular comment though, but
>>> that it's so common on Wikipedia for me to hear and come across
>>> obviously misogynist exchanges--and it's tiresome to hear
>>> announcements of it not being present, by those least likely to
>>> encounter it.  It's no wonder there are so few women in the upper
>>> echelons on Wikipedia, imo, in a culture that is so damn accepting and
>>> ignorant of how it makes women outsiders.
>>>       
>> It should tell you something that the majority of persons who have been 
>> elected the the Board by the community have been women. That's a neat 
>> trick to come from an electorate so full of misogynists.
>>
>> I don't doubt that you have frequently encountered language on the part 
>> of others which you consider misogynistic.  If it's coming from those 
>> "least likely to encounter it" you have disconnect more than you have 
>> misogyny.  Not everybody is at the same place in the spectrum of gender 
>> politics.  Those of us with experience in female dominated circumstances 
>> are not overly concerned about the gender of the person across the table 
>> from us.  He or she is simply what he or she is.  Gender relations falls 
>> apart when you start imputing misogynistic motives that were never there.
>>     
> It's no wonder there are so few women in the upper echelons on 
> Wikipedia, imo, in a culture that is so damn accepting and ignorant of 
> how it makes women outsiders.
>   
Saying that underlines the importance of maintaining an open dialogue.  
Those who choose to put "pimp" in a user box or a user name will always 
be a small minority.  The first victims of such actions will be their 
own credibility.  Oddly enough, it is probably the most dangerous among 
the males who will do the most to keep this infantile segment in order.  
They have a highly developed sense of order that does not adjust well to 
variations in factual circumstances.  If bullying is required to achieve 
their vision of perfection that is the tactic that they use with 
complete indifference to the gender of the person they oppose.

The gender divide on Wikpedia is rarely a question of open misogyny.  
Dealing with it will require a lot more understanding on both sides. It 
means toning down needless aggression, and it also means giving due 
weight to what motivates an act.  Is all this really just about the 
inopportune use of words?
> I will not comment on the "few women in the upper echelons of 
> Wikipedia", but I can comment on the "very numerous women in the upper 
> echelons of the Foundation".
>   
What conclusion can be drawn from the simple fact that of all the 
elected Board members Erik is the only male.  The number of male 
candites in each instance has outnumbered the females, as have the 
number of voters.
> Why is that that women seem to drift away from editing proper, to deal 
> with more "organization" matters ? Less bullshit probably. Less 
> agressivity. Smaller groups where people know each other. Hard to say.
>   
The matters of bullshit, agressivity and small groups are not problems 
that affect only women.  Coping with that is not made any easier by 
being male. It means sticking one's neck out without any confidence that 
like-minded others will join in.
> But in the organization proper, I would say there is no mysogyny. If you 
> want to join and help, there is a LOT to do :-)
Huh???  You're inviting men to join wiki-chix??? =-O

Ec