[WikiEN-l] Missed Opportunities to have avoided the Durova Case

[George Herbert]

On Nov 27, 2007 11:10 AM, Ray Saintonge <saintonge at telus.net> wrote:

>   Discussing harassment is not the problem; using those
> discussions in a conspiracy to harass someone that that private group
> doesn't like is.
>

Disclaimer: at one point I was on the cyberstalking-l list, but am not at
the moment for reasons completely unrelated to the current blowup.

I don't know how a private discussion list can cause harassment of someone
that a group doesn't like.  Even assuming that hostile harassment happens
somewhere (and, though there was a lot of venting about real and percieved
harassers, I don't think that cyberstalking-l did that), if the harassee is
not present then they aren't being subjected to anything.

The list could be used to coordinate some sort of campaign of abuse
elsewhere.  That clearly did not happen while I was on the list.

It could also be used to discuss investigations into and responses to
abusive wikipedians, such as harrassers and trolls, leading to
administrative actions elsewhere.  But the list is not an administrative
venue or announcement venue related to those actions, any more so than IRC
or private emails between wikipedians of any sort.  Any actions taken have
to have the usual announcements in the usual places, with the usual
standards of evidence etc.

This list was private because it's a sensitive and volatile subject, not
just for Wikipedia but for all online communities.  The community as a whole
DOES NOT have a right to view all private discussions related in any way to
Wikipedia.  We understand and acknowledge that with private emails, private
IRC messages, and other mailing lists such as arbcom-l and unblock-en-l and
so forth.  This list is no different.

It's reasonable for people to want assurances that the list was not being
used to orchestrate a campaign of unfair or process/policy violating abuse
against percieved enemies.  It was not in the time I was on it.

It's reasonable for people to want assurances that there has been some form
of adult supervision on a list where sensitive and volatile issues and
responses were discussed.  Jimmy and several arbcom members, as well as
other senior respected community members, were active in the list while I
was.  Sanity checks were performed regularly.



-- 
-george william herbert
george.herbert at gmail.com