[WikiEN-l] Missed Opportunities to have avoided the Durova Case

[Relata Refero]

Colluding is not my word. It's Bryan's. The purpose of my message was to
point out that Bryan's suggestion that further discussion of the block took
place off-wiki was not ruled out by  Guy's statement that blocking !! was
not explicitly proposed on-list, only the evidence that !! was a disruptive
sockpuppet.

If you re-read the above discussions, you will note that nobody really
expects any controls on off-wiki discussion, which would be unenforceable.
There are concerns about the on-wiki ramifications of a specific subset of
such communications. So I don't suppose either Bryan or I need to respond to
the rest of your message.

RR


On Nov 27, 2007 10:20 PM, jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com> wrote:

> So now, in addition to the two aforementioned lists, there's some
> other set of people "colluding" privately off-wiki to take action
> based on e-mails to the lists? O.K., let's assume for the moment that
> this bizarrely bad-faith theory is true. What on earth does it have to
> do with Wikipedia any more? Wikipedians privately e-mail each other
> hundreds, perhaps thousands of times a day. What do you propose to do
> about that?
>
> On Nov 27, 2007 11:35 AM, Relata Refero <refero.relata at gmail.com> wrote:
> > You are setting up a false contradiction. 'Collusion', in Bryan's words,
> > might have existed off the public list, once the evidence has been
> presented
> > to the entire set. Matthew specifically laid that possibility open, in
> fact.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Nov 27, 2007 9:43 PM, jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Nov 27, 2007 11:12 AM, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen at shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > > Guy Chapman aka JzG wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:04:44 -0700, Bryan Derksen
> > > > > <bryan.derksen at shaw.ca> wrote:
> > > > >> A major line is crossed when that "private letting-off of steam"
> > > results
> > > > >> in administrators blocking users and then refusing to reveal why
> they
> > > > >> did it, though. This wasn't just some private venting session
> that
> > > leaked.
> > > > >> If an administrator were to block someone with the explanation "I
> ran
> > > > >> this by some people on an IRC channel and they okayed it, but I
> can't
> > > > >> tell you who or where or why", that would quite rightly result in
> a
> > > > >> furore. "Some people on an IRC channel" don't have any authority
> to
> > > okay
> > > > >> anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > I completely agree.  I think I've even said as much.  The point
> here
> > > > > is that this would not mean it was IRC that was to blame for the
> > > > > cock-up, it would be the admin's fault.
> > > >
> > > > I would also want to know who "some people" were, and whether they
> > > > really thought they had the authority to okay this or if the admin
> was
> > > > just blowing smoke about having their support.
> > > >
> > > > If Durova "simply screwed up", fine, her bad. But if there's a group
> of
> > > > like-minded editors who were colluding on this and she just happens
> to
> > > > have had the bad luck to take the fall, I don't want the rest to
> meekly
> > > > and secretively creep back to whatever they were doing behind closed
> > > > doors that resulted in this happening. I want to make sure this
> attitude
> > > > and this bad process is rooted out.
> > >
> > >
> > > Bryan, I've read through this e-mail thread, and in it I see both
> > > Matthew and Guy saying clearly and unequivocally that Durova did not
> > > even *propose* blocking !! on the private lists, much less get
> > > approval for it. Do you think they are both lying?
> > >
> >
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