[WikiEN-l] Attack Site Wars, Episode VII... The Return of the Essjay

[The Cunctator]

"beefed up slanderous article"? You're venturing onto very shaky ground
right now. You might want to dial back the rhetoric a little.

On 6/27/07, White Cat <wikipedia.kawaii.neko at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Did you just compare George W. Bush and Essjay? :D
>
> Morality is not a rationale of mine. The point is Essjay is not a notable
> individual to the point that consensus established that there shouldn't be
> an article on him.
>
> Also it is a beefed up slanderous article on an individual. Since Essjay
> isn't a public figure this (the article) borderlines harassment of an
> individual. I am not exactly certain of the legal ground on this but
> Floridan law may have issues with this which puts the foundation at a
> legal
> risk. This aspect should also be investigated.
>
>      - White Cat
>
> On 6/27/07, John Lee <johnleemk at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 6/28/07, Phil Sandifer <Snowspinner at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Jun 27, 2007, at 11:05 AM, The Mangoe wrote:
> > >
> > > > If we think that Wikipedia is important, then Essjay's sins are
> > > > important. Either it will be an important crisis that we got past,
> or
> > > > it will be the first major outbreak of a problem we never learned to
> > > > deal with. Either way, people ten years from now who write about
> > > > Wikipedia are going to mention the incident.
> > >
> > > I'm skeptical. Why don't we wait ten years and add the article if
> > > you're right?
> > >
> > > Seriously. We're the sixth Google hit on Essjay's real name, and the
> > > first one related to him. For all his errors, he was a good member of
> > > the community. He wrote good articles, and was generally a fair, nice
> > > guy. He made a mistake not on Wikipedia but in talking to a reporter.
> > > And despite his false credentials, he also didn't fuck those articles
> > > up with nonsense.
> > >
> > > I'm not OK with us being the first thing on him his future employers
> > > see when they Google him. He was a kid when he made his mistakes, and
> > > we shouldn't be the ones to tar and feather him for life over them.
> >
> >
> > I'm uncomfortable about allowing our individual inclinations as editors,
> > even if there is good moral standing for them, to seep into our editing.
> > To
> > me, it is the same as allowing ourselves to explicitly condemn, say, the
> > Holocaust. I won't say I have the answer to this conundrum, but I am not
> > sure if the answer has to involve imposing our own moral views, no
> matter
> > how correct we feel they are, on the encyclopaedia.
> >
> > The BLP policy is of course grounded, in a sense, in morals, but also in
> > practicality. Information about a living individual's life is far more
> > likely to be in flux; the George W. Bush of 2000 may not be the George
> W.
> > Bush of 2010, and the John Lee of 2007 may not be the John Lee of 2057.
> It
> > makes sense to have a higher sourcing standard for claims about living
> > individuals, and to take a more aggressive approach to handling possible
> > libel (especially considering legal issues). There is no need to involve
> > issues of morality or our own personal subjective judgment in handling
> > biographies of living people, although we undoubtedly
> > subconsciously/consciously have because many of us feel it is "right" to
> > have a strict BLP policy (there is nothing wrong with this provided
> there
> > is
> > also an objective basis for our actions).
> >
> > I am not sure if the circumstances are quite congruent concerning the
> > Essjay
> > issue. I understand his youthful indiscretion, being a youth myself and
> > having made many youthful mistakes. I certainly would not want this
> being
> > held against him in the future. But at the same time, I can find no
> basis
> > for deciding the article on the [[Essjay controversy]] should be deleted
> > that does not lie in some subjective valuation of morals.
> >
> > Johnleemk
> > _______________________________________________
> > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> WikiEN-l mailing list
> WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
>