[WikiEN-l] Wikipedia as a cult

[Steven Walling]

3 years? that is total bullshit. I have been contributing only since August
of 06, and I have been deeply involved in all sorts of heated and
influential deletion discussions surrounding policy interpretation. I have
had my views respected and heard bc of the clarity and (I hope) veracity of
my interpretation. Wikipedia is a meritocracy. No matter how long you've
been around, if you have a strong argument you will be heard. It is simply
that most new editors ignore policy and only argue around semantics. This is
naturally ignored for the most part. But once any new editor who figures out
what they should be using as evidence, they can be heard.

On 6/24/07, michael west <michawest at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> To Steve and Gabe the Count reference was unfair as an analogy.
> Secondly, communism is about discussing policy, but how many lowly editors
> ever get heard above the BOOMING voices of long established administrators
> and beuracrats on policy/guidline talk pages, who often snuff out comments
> with a nonsense or I formulated this ;-)
>
> Marc, people do get a lot out of Wikipedia thats why many of us are still
> contributing. But editing goes far beyond the encyclopedia anyone can
> edit.
> It only become the encyclopedia anyone can edit after you have studied
> policy for 3 years. disgruntled first, second, third time edits will
> revert
> to vandalism unless we handle new and experienced editors much better than
> we do now.
>
> Mike33
>
> On 25/06/07, Gabe Johnson <gjzilla at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > On 6/24/07, michael west <michawest at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > Other places have drawn analogogies about Wikipedia as being akin to a
> > > cult.  I think it does have aspects of that. The same has been said
> > about
> > > Trotskyist groups.  I think that a better analogy would be that
> > Wikipedia
> > > looks like a Trotskyist group (though obviously not in any political
> > sense).
> > >
> > >
> > >    - Wikipedians value themselves on the amount  "counts" they are at.
> > >    - Wikipedians spend more time discussing policy than actually
> writing
> > >    articles.
> > >    - Wikipedians don't respond well to critism from outsiders.
> > >    - Wikipedians have an Uber Mentor (Jimbo Wales).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >    - Trotskyists value themselves on the amounts of "newspapers" they
> > >    have sold.
> > >    - Trotskyists spend more time discussing policy that actually doing
> > >    groundwork.
> > >    - Trotskyists would rather die than have a kind word for somebody
> who
> > >    has left the movement.
> > >    - Trotskyists have an Uber Mentor (Leon Trotsky, James P. Cannon,
> > >    Gerry Healey, Posada, Tony Cliff, Ted Grant etc. etc).
> > >
> > > Perhaps, many groups could be included not just Trotskyists (I have
> been
> > a
> > > Trotskyist for 18 years, and been part of various schisms within even
> > small
> > > groups), but use it as an example of how ordinary editors do get
> bogged
> > down
> > > in changing perception of policy and guidelines, which many, many
> > editors
> > > only get to hear about when they actually contribute.
> > >
> > > Perhaps a closed Wikipedia is the way forward, we all know that
> > Wikipedia is
> > > not the encyclopedia everyone can edit.
> > >
> > > There was much criticism of Esperanza and it ended up just being a
> > clubroom
> > > and block vote.  A New Esperanza type project would be helpful
> (wikilove
> > is
> > > too crass though) but as a way of helping new editors or editors who
> > tend to
> > > write new articles not get so fed up with process that they leave.
> > >
> > > Would welcome any comments.
> > >
> > > Mike33
> >
> > It's true! Wikipedia *is* communism!
> >
> > (I'm thinking we should have a pageg about that. [[WP:COMMUNISM]].)
> >
> > Also, someone mentioned editcount. See [[WP:COUNT]]. ~~~~
> >
> > --
> > Absolute Power
> > C^7rr8p£5 ab£$^u7£%y
> >
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