[WikiEN-l] I'm disappointed in Wikipedia.

[Brian Salter-Duke]

On Sun, Jun 17, 2007 at 06:56:55PM -0700, K P wrote:
>  On 6/17/07, Brian Salter-Duke <b_duke at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> > On Sun, Jun 17, 2007 at 04:02:29PM -0700, K P wrote:
> > >  On 6/16/07, Brian Salter-Duke <b_duke at bigpond.net.au> wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Jun 16, 2007 at 09:02:06PM -0700, Todd Allen wrote:
> > > > > Anthony wrote:
> > > > > > On 6/16/07, Anthony <wikimail at inbox.org> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> On 6/15/07, The Mangoe <the.mangoe at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>> At any rate, there are
> > > > > >>> some 1400 tenure and tenure-track faculty at UMD. Harvard has 
> > more.
> > > > > >>> That makes hundreds of thousands "notable", just counting present
> > > > > >>> faculty; the dead of course hugely outnumber them. The survival 
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > >>> project relies upon the lack of interest most people have in 
> > entering
> > > > > >>> these directories (for that is what they will largely be).
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >>>
> > > > > >> Are you suggesting that the project won't survive with 1400 
> > additional
> > > > > >> entries?  If so, I have to disagree.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > > Sorry, misread.  Are you suggesting that the project won't survive
> > > > > > with hundreds of thousands of additional entries?  I still 
> > disagree.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > > > > WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > I wouldn't go so far as to say it would kill off the project, but I
> > > > > believe it would be bad for it. We're not attempting to create "Who's
> > > > > Who in Academia", we're attempting to create an encyclopedia. By
> > > > > covering subjects which are barely of note, very little information
> > > > > exists for, and will be forgotten completely ten years from now, we 
> > are
> > > > > giving them undue weight simply by inclusion. That violates NPOV, 
> > which
> > > > > -is- a core principle.
> > > >
> > > > I do not think anybody is really suggesting that all academics should
> > > > get a wikipedia article. It is at least arguable that Professors in the
> > > > UK and other Commonwealth countries, where most acdaemics are not
> > > > Professors, should have an article. In the US that would apply to named
> > > > and distinguished chairs which are comparable.
> > > >
> > > > What concerns me is that we do give undue weight to people in other
> > > > areas, where in general they are even less notable. For example, just
> > > > taking one example I looked up just now, my local AFL Club, the
> > > > [[Western Bulldogs]], has an article that lists the current squad of
> > > > players. There are 44. That means some of them  will hardly get a game
> > > > the whole session. Only 3 are redlinks. 41 of them appear to have
> > > > articles. Most of these people will be far more forgotten in 10 years
> > > > time than academics who will have published something. It seems to me
> > > > that we include sports people and some others far more easily than we
> > > > include academics. We even had two Australian Vice Chancelloes up at 
> > AfD
> > > > this last week. We have articles for only about half the Fellows of the
> > > > Royal Society, the National Academy of Sciences and many other highly
> > > > notable academies. We need more articles on good academics.
> > > >
> > > > If only people would write about academics who deserve an article 
> > rather
> > > > on vanity stuff about their supervisor or themseleves. Oh well!.
> > > >
> > > > Brian.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > WikiEN-l mailing list
> > > > > WikiEN-l at lists.wikimedia.org
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> > > > > http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >          Brian Salter-Duke            b_duke at bigpond.net.au
> > > >               [[User:Bduke]]  mainly on en:Wikipedia.
> > > >           Also on fr: Wikipedia, Meta-Wiki and Wikiversity
> > > >
> > > >
> > >  Yes, there are some pretty minor football players with articles, but
> > >  they do get written up in the news in such a way that the information
> > >  is available on the web.
> > >
> > >  A current AfD, American Polygraph Association, a professional
> > >  organization for, well, polygraph technicians.  The organization
> > >  itself has been the subject of much international research and scandal
> > >  because professional polygraph organizations outside of North America
> > >  disagree with a technique favored by the APA--the organization and
> > >  this technique have, therefore, been the subject of numerous articles
> > >  in international psychology and criminalogy journals, not the stuff
> > >  found on the web.  This is old stuff from when I studied witness
> > >  testimony, not current knowledge, but I was able to find a couple of
> > >  sources.
> > >
> > >  Oh, let's see, why was it nominated for deletion?  According to
> > >  user:Wikihermit:
> > >
> > >  Non notable organization.
> > >
> > >  In other words, someone's personal point of view offered up as an
> > >  exercise in wasting time.
> >
> > Indeed, and the AfD's for Australian University Vice Chancellors are a
> > waste of time too. Footy players get internet references. Academics get
> > references too, but they are often less accessable. We should treat them
> > the same.
> >
> > >  Football players?  They're everywhere. I just edited an aricle for a
> > >  college (American) football quarterback.
> > >
> > >  KP
> >
> > --
> >          Brian Salter-Duke            b_duke at bigpond.net.au
> >               [[User:Bduke]]  mainly on en:Wikipedia.
> >           Also on fr: Wikipedia, Meta-Wiki and Wikiversity
> >
> >
>  Well, we should probably lean towards more articles on the academics,
>  than college football players.

Indeed, but it is the reverse at present, even for very distinguished
academics such as FRSs. We certainly do not have articles on every
Australian VC (about 34). I bet we gave an article on every manager of
an AFL side (16) and about 20 - 30 articles on players for each team.
 
>  KP

-- 
          Brian Salter-Duke            b_duke at bigpond.net.au  
               [[User:Bduke]]  mainly on en:Wikipedia.
           Also on fr: Wikipedia, Meta-Wiki and Wikiversity