[WikiEN-l] Incivility, re: psychosis

[George Herbert]

On 1/15/07, Pilotguy <pilotguy.wikipedia at gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry, this is not a place for you to play around Chris. This is a serious
> project and we have serious work to do here. We do not have time for all the
> nonsense that goes on these days. What one may view as "incivilty" may be
> viewed by another as an entirely different thing. The point is simply, to
> cool down and keep things serious here. We're not here to entertain people.
>
> On 1/15/07, Mark Ryan <ultrablue at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I certainly did not expect this issue to be taken to the mailing list
> > itself. Because you took the issue to the mailing list, I shall
> > respond to you on the mailing list.
> >
> > The best reaction would have been to reply with something to the
> > effect of 'okay, I won't call people's arguments "b.s." or suggest
> > that they be "taken out and shot"'. Not to turn around and claim that
> > I am equally uncivil (for violating the "etiquette" which somehow
> > demands that people who do the wrong thing not be told they are doing
> > so), humourless, suffering from some sort of psychosis, and a dick.
> >
> > I instituted a rule of civility on this mailing list a couple of years
> > ago in response to some extremely abusive posts by someone who
> > demanded to know what rule they had broken to get themselves moderated
> > on the list. It does not follow [[WP:CIVIL]] to the letter (in fact I
> > don't think I've even read that wiki page completely). It follows
> > common sense (specifically, the common sense of the list
> > administrators).
> >
> > If you cannot see that calling people's arguments 'specious' and
> > 'b.s.', and suggesting that the founder of such arguments should be
> > 'taken out and shot' can be interpreted to be personal attacks, then
> > I'm not sure anything I say to you is going to do any good.
> >
> > ~Mark Ryan
> > WikiEN-l mailing list admin
> >
> > P.S. Your emails are breaking mailing list threads in Gmail.
> >
> >
> > On 16/01/07, Christopher Thieme <cdthieme at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I just got admonished by "Mark" for being "uncivil" on this list with
> > regard
> > > to a comment I made in my initial message on "Moving the Main Page."
> > >
> > > I don't think I was.  At least, from how I read the strict construction
> > of
> > > the policy, I didn't say anything ruled to be incivility by the dictates
> > > of WP:CIVIL.
> > >
> > > And going back to my post on what psychosis might be hidden in some of
> > > users, I forgot one of the biggest problems underneath the surface of
> > > Wikipedia...
> > >
> > > We have too many humorless people.
> > >
> > > Humorless people who enforce WP:CIVIL thinking that something benign
> > > and rhetorical and not even mentioned in WP:CIVIL is "incivility."
> > >
> > > And those who don't realize that it's incivility to admonish others
> > > for acting with "incivility."
> > >
> > > Here's probably the only circumstance where I'll state that WP:DICK
> > > and WP:FUCK are not a cop-out.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Christopher D. Thieme
> > >
> > >
> > > P.S. I know I'm not alone in saying that I have considered leaving
> > Wikipedia
> > > on several occasions not because of incivility or personal attacks, but
> > > because there are people who can't and refuse to take an obvious
> > joke.  The
> > > humorless people will ruin Wikipedia before those who aren't prim,
> > proper
> > > and civil.

I would like to both agree and disagree; this should not be so serious
that people cannot lighten up.  Workplaces and projects with low
communal humor do terrible things to their participants.

That said, I don't think that the comments which started this all came
across as funny, I agree that they came across as abusive, and whether
we have a laugh from time to time or not, abusive is a bad idea.


-- 
-george william herbert
george.herbert at gmail.com