[WikiEN-l] vanishing talk pages

[Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)]

On 12/20/07, doc <doc.wikipedia at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> I've been increasingly noticing that when established users leave the
> project (or decide to switch to a new account) an admin often deletes
> their usertalk pages. When I've questioned these deletions as lacking
> any basis in the speedy criteria, I've been pointed to [[m:right to
> vanish]].
>
> Now, let me start by saying I see cases where an IAR deletion of
> usertalk pages might be the right thing to do: someone has account
> associated with a real-life identity and they are being harassed off
> wiki. Admins, and particularly OTRS, need some leeway here. However, as
> a general practice of "delete on demand" I find it problematic.
>
> Meta's "right to vanish" states ""Your user and talk pages, and their
> subpages, and other non-article pages that no others have substantively
> contributed to and whose existence does not impact the project, may be
> courtesy blanked or deleted."
>
> Now that clearly excludes any routine deletion of talk pages of
> established users, as others HAVE made substantial contributions.
> Further, the existence of those talk pages may well "impact the project"
> as conversation there will provide the context for decisions and posts
> elsewhere. Indeed, deleting such pages may well be prejudicial to other
> users. (A whole arbcom case, or deletion discussion, or a controversial
> block, can depend on a few diffs in a talk page history.) Especially, as
> are sometimes speaking of admin accounts.
>
> The meta page also suggests that blanking may be an alternative.
>
> As I say, I don't want to suggest that talkpages never be deleted. But
> I'm concerned about the impression of some admins that users have a
> "right" here - they don't.  Or that the deleter has full discretion -
> they don't. Any deletion is an exercise of IAR and must have really good
> reason.
>
> The problem is that, if this continues, those of us unhappy will have
> little choice but to use DRV. But, if we do that, we'll also be drawing
> attention to the rare cases where there is a genuine reason (which is
> also why I will not give any examples here). Much better if we can send
> a clear message that these deletions of long-standing contributors' talk
> pages should not happen, unless there's really exceptional grounds (and
> perhaps those few cases could be discussed among a few OTRS  people to
> check they are really necessary - and that selective deletion,
> oversight, or blanking will not suffice).
>
> The right to vanish is a right of contributors to leave, no questions
> asked, it is not a right to pull all your correspondence from the file
> and demand the employer shred every document you're ever signed.
>
> Doc


I see the theoretical issue that Doc is raising here under the guidelines,
but I'm not convinced that deleting a user's talkpage typically creates any
problems as a practical matter, that would warrant our insisting on keeping
the page if the user really wants it gone.  Have such deletions typically
raised any practical problems for us?

Newyorkbrad