[WikiEN-l] Category destruction

[K P]

On 4/29/07, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> on 4/29/07 6:57 PM, Thomas Dalton at thomas.dalton at gmail.com wrote:
>
> >> I still believe, however, that the entire Category system in WP has
> lost
> >> focus, direction, purpose - something. And that a serious overall look
> at it
> >> needs to happen soon.
> >
> > I'm not convinced there is a non-technical solution, though. What we
> > have at the moment doesn't work, certainly, but is there anything
> > better?
> >
> To find out, starts with enough people - with loud enough voices -
> agreeing
> that the status quo doesn't work.
>
> However, actually taking action here, presents to the post I made a little
> while ago today about WP process.
>
> In a typical physical environment such as a workplace, an organization or
> some other similar setting, when a problem is recognized to exist, a
> process
> is usually in place to deal with such situations. A group, or team, of
> persons get together, thrash it out, and come away with suggested
> alternatives and solutions.
>
> How can such a process be handled in the context of Wikipedia?
>
> Marc


One of the problems in this instance, imo, is the complexity of the issue.
Just look at this response to my comments:

>"Nobody" is a somewhat harsh judgement.  Those that do see the problem
>just give up fighting with those obsessed with their own little corner
>of categories.  The set theory analogy is interesting.  *One needs to
>make the distinction between a set of elements, and a set of subsets
>which each have one element.
*
>Ec

How many people nodded sagely and said, of course, no need to state the
obvious to this comment of Ec's?  Probably nobody is a little harsh, but
having struggled to figure out what they think they're doing versus what
they're actually doing with categories on En.Wikipedia and Wikipedia
Commons, it's very obvious that nobody is not all that harsh, and a few
comments about "oh, we're working with sets of subsets, not .of elements,"
would have gone a long way.

Set theory is deceptively simple and powerful, and the type of organization
that people like librarians, and one would hope data base designers
(implementation, not coding), do is simply not something that lends itself
to inexperienced group think.  Not everything Wikipedia is attempting to do,
be, and provide, can be had for the efforts of a bunch of volunteers.
Having seen it in action, I'm in awe of the type of insight into
organization and categorization done by people who organize data for a
living.

IMO, as long as we have the mentality that the problem with categories can
be solved just like everything else has been solved on Wikipedia
categorization will be a failure.  This needs a dedicated professional for
something this huge, and probably more than one.  I don't see anything but
wasting time in CfD, categories, and etc., all over Wiki space, until
something is put in order with categories.

KP