[WikiEN-l] You Really Don't Get It

[Marc Riddell]

> On 4/23/07, Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86 at comcast.net> wrote:

>> But, speaking specifically about the people you interact with all the time
>> on this List, that you wouldn't have a chance to meet in the above places,
>> wouldn't you like to know what they think, and how they feel, about other
>> things beside what relates to Wikipedia?
>> 
on 4/23/07 5:32 AM, John Lee at johnleemk at gmail.com wrote:

> I'm not sure if we should judge any attempts to start this sort of thing,
> but there was a *very* active movement to create this sort of thing in 2006.
> I'm specifically thinking of userboxen and [[Wikipedia:Esperanza]].
> Ironically, it was decided (by consensus, moreover, and among many of these
> projects' proponents) that both of these things actually hurt the community;
> the proliferation of boxen has slowed, and Esperanza was shut down.
> 
> I'm not sure why these attempts failed, but it may be that getting to know
> your fellow editors as humans isn't very conducive to creating a culture of
> mutual respect if you can't even respect them on a professional level. (The
> most active and vocal Esperanzeans also had some of the most active and
> vocal assumers of bad faith in their number.)
> 
> In the end, I think it's more about the kind of people who are attracted to
> the project - specifically, the messy deep dark bowels of the project such
> as RfA, AfD, and all things that attract trolls (e.g. articles on polemical
> issues like [[George W. Bush]]). Most reasonable people hang out around
> these areas for a while, decide they're not worth it, and either leave or
> find their own niche on WP (mine seems to have become Malaysian articles;
> it's an obscure, quiet and peaceful area of WP where I do my best to keep
> politicians' biographies free from libel - not very hard when there aren't
> many people editing them).
> 
> The nicest and most respectful people in the project tend to be those who
> avoid the polemical areas of WP. Trouble is, if nobody mans the polemical
> areas, who will? We can't surrender these things to the extremists - but the
> levelheaded centrists don't have the right temperament for handling them
> without burning out.
> 
> I guess what I'm trying to say is, if you can respect your fellow editors on
> a professional basis, it's redundant to get to know them on a personal
> level, although that would be nice. And if you can't respect them as
> colleagues (common for people involved in polemical things, where the other
> guy is *always* wrong), it's difficult to imagine you respecting them as
> people. That may be why Esperanza failed; because its base was generally
> people who couldn't respect their fellow editors as colleagues.


Thanks, John, for your thoughts and some history on this; I¹m learning.

I¹m sorry to hear that past attempts at this have failed. It's not a huge
deal for me, but I just think an opportunity is being missed here.

During the course of interacting with others on the List regarding things
WP, I have come to respect how many of these persons think and express
themselves. My curiosity then takes over, and I begin to wonder what these
same persons think and feel about the broader issues of the day. And, quite
frankly, just felt I would like to get to know them a little better.

Also, I have found that when persons open themselves up to each other (even
just a little) it makes it more difficult (for the healthy ones anyway) to
disregard and disrespect each other any time they communicate.

Just thinking out loud here, but perhaps much of the gridlock and downright
abusive language and other negative behaviors would be lessened if more
people here felt and understood they were dealing with actual persons.

*A man is walking along and falls into a hole. He calls for help. A priest
comes by, hears his cries, writes him a prayer, tosses it down to him and
goes on. Soon a doctor comes by, hears his cries, writes him a prescription,
tosses it down to him and goes on. Soon after another man comes along, hears
his cries, and jumps into the hole with him. ³What the hell are you doing? ³
the man in the hole says. ³I¹ve been in here before³ the other man replies,
³and I know the way out.³

Marc