[WikiEN-l] I've Kicked the Process Habit

[Phil Sandifer]

On Sep 16, 2006, at 8:37 AM, geni wrote:

>
> Do you want to tell the foundation that WP:OFFICE and copyright is  
> just process?

No. Do you want to tell me that everybody who uploads images needs to  
become copyright experts? Because I'm figuring we can get by pretty  
OK on people who are making a good faith effort to follow fair use.  
Which is, shockingly, not that hard a concept.

>
> So you shouldn't be worried about pissing large numbers of people off?
> You know working with the community and all that?
>

Geni, it's clear that everybody in this conversation is not worried  
about pissing large numbers of people off, you least of all.

> Cool so what happened to consensus?
>

Nothing happens to consensus. Something may happen to mob rule, but  
that's different.

>>     * Changes in process may be sudden, or they may be gradual. An
>> editor who consistently disregards a particular process may indeed
>> influence others to do the same ... and that process is changed. Make
>> sure the documentation stays up to date.

> It tends to.
>

No, it really doesn't. It tends to become a tangle of limit cases and  
exceptions for pathological cases. The only thing that makes the  
documentation stay vaguely accurate is the willingness of people to  
follow it without thinking.
>

> It's okish for editors and a really bad idea for admins. Editors
> actions can be undone by pretty much anyone. Admin actions cannot. An
> editor doing something annoying will merely result in them being
> reverted. Admins actions can affect far larger numbers of people. Most
> people accept WP:OWN applies to edits. A section of admins keeps
> trying to claim that it does not apply to admin actions making it even
> harder to revert the things. Admins are meant to serve the community.
> The powers were only given by the community in order to do what the
> community wanted. They were not given for you to do whatever seemed
> like a good idea at the time.

Which isn't what I said I was going to do. IAR is not "cut the  
newbies some slack when they don't know the rules." That's BITE. IAR  
is "Look, try to understand the basic premises, then go ahead and act  
in a manner consistent with them, and odds are it'll work out fine."  
I'm counting on that actually being true. That's not "whatever seemed  
like a good idea at the time." That's "whatever seemed to an admin of  
two years like the thing most consistent with his ever-growing  
knowledge of how Wikipedia works."

I'd say it's a subtle difference, but honestly, it's not.

-Phil