[WikiEN-l] Sourcing "popular culture" items

[Ray Saintonge]

Jimmy Wales wrote:

>Jeff Raymond wrote:
>  
>
>>Because a verifiable stub isn't worth it? 
>>    
>>
>I did not say that.  The point is, it is NOT verifiable.  It is likely a 
>copyvio, and the amount of information known about this woman from 
>reliable third party sources is about as close to zero as you can get.
>
>It was written by someone who appears to have a serious problem with 
>respect to uploading copyvio images and claiming he took them.  I see no 
>reason to trust anything about the article at all.
>
>In the meantime, we have an article that is most likely a copyvio, and 
>in any event contains a number of totally unverifiable sources.  And any 
>movement to do something about this sort of nonsense is met with the 
>view that people are out to censor pop culture or something like that.
>
This is an overreaction.  While there may be some basis for suspecting 
that the image may be a copyvio, saying that about the text of the 
article is a bit of a stretch.  There is not much information in the 
article to start with.  It is a stub, but that is more an argument for 
the proposed merge than outright deletion.  How can you say that 
something is "likely a copyvio"?  Either it's prima facie a copyvio or 
it's not.  Either you have compared it with some original text, or you 
haven't.  Wouldn't it be better to verify a claim that someone is acting 
illegally before making it.  If we are going to criticize such 
unsubstantiated claims when they are made about the subject of an 
article, shouldn't the same standard apply to claims about our fellow 
contributors.

I would not presume to say whether the information is verifiable or 
not.  I do not understand Tagalog, and I do not regularly keep tabs on 
what is being said in Philippine publications..  Do you?

And what really is the standard for pop culture notability?  There is 
an  extensive article for the 9th place finisher from the most recent 
''American Idol''.  This was the first season of ''Philippine Idol''.  
Why wouldn't it's 9th place finisher merit the same treatment, including 
the way that publicity shots are accepted?  This project isn't just 
about what goes on in those countries that have a high proportion of 
Wikipedians.  It isn't just about the sophisticated standards that have 
developed over a long period of time in our key countries.  It's also 
about educating editors in other countries, and you don't accomplish 
that with automated messages about the evils of copyvios.  These 
techniques that one would associate with Gringo imperialism do nothing 
to draw newbies into our fraternity.

I don't see User:The Green Archer as having with a serious problem.  In 
the spirit of "Don't bite the newbies" someone writing him a personal 
message or taking this "lad" under wing would have accomplished more in 
educating a new editor.  Simply welcoming with an automated message that 
shows newcomers the way to "Help" and "FAQ" pages is our equivalent to 
an automated telephone message telling us to "Press 1 if ..., Press 2 if 
..., Press 3 if... , ..."

Ec