[WikiEN-l] Unblock request - We are not a group acting like one person
Ceyda Lacin
ceyda-lacin at hotmail.com
Sat May 27 20:34:57 UTC 2006
Did you mean Users Azate and Netscott should be blocked because they are
acting like a single person? Maybe sysop Cyde too? Please note that my
contributions to the Gulen article is no more than my contributions to other
articles. To interpret us like 'a group acing together' will mislead you in
your decision. We both know some abuout the issue and wanted to contribute
to the article. You will see that it is not a blind support to Mr. Gulerdem
if you check the talk page. All actions and edits are within the limits of
Wikipedia rules. Please check Gulen talk page.
Thank you,
Ceyda Lacin
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 07:49:11 -0600
>From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
>Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Unblock request - Further explanations of the
> case
>To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
>Cc: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
>Message-ID: <00A1A72E-6418-49B0-A620-888CCCF01D7A at ctelco.net>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
> format=flowed
>
>A small group of people who act like one person may be treated as one
>person.
>
>Fred
>
>On May 27, 2006, at 7:02 AM, Ceyda Lacin wrote:
>
> > I will try to explain as briefly as possible:
> >
> > Please check the following links to see the case clearly:
> > * [[Wikipedia:Wikiethics]]
> > * [[Fethullah Gulen]]
> > * [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser/
> > Rgulerdem]
> >
> > Mr. Gulerdem informed me about Wikipedia. I liked it. He has solid
> > background about [[Fethullah Gulen]] movement (besides many others I
> > have to say). He told us about the article and the difficulties he
> > has been facing to in that article. I am not an expert on the issue
> > but I knew the movement through him and I have read quite a few
> > books about Mr. Gulen and the movement. I decided to contribute to
> > the article, so did my friend Hakan ([[User:Mokotok]]). I also tried
> > to make some corrections and modifications on some other articles.
> >
> > Dr. Gulerdem mentioned about some structural problems he realized on
> > Wikipedia and his trial for a proposal [[Wikipedia:Wikiethics]]. We
> > quickly saw that there are (at least two [[User:Netscott]] and
> > [[User:Azate]]) users sound like they have strong emotional tensity
> > towards Mr. Gulerdem. As far as I understood a few people 'without
> > much ethical concerns' or more kindly with some ideological or
> > cultural (you can say religious if you like to) hatred against him,
> > together pushed him into some trouble. He faced to an unjustified
> > indefinite block by sysop [[User: Cyde]] with the pretext of 'user
> > does not get it' while he was blocked already. All these discussions
> > took place around the proposal [[Wikipedia:Wikiethics]] which seems
> > to be a brilliant idea to me. Since the same sysop blocked him again
> > indefinitely right after a check user case is filled, I have no
> > doubt in mind that there are some clear structural problems in
> > Wikipedia. (You can see the evidence of all these on
> > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser/
> > Rgulerdem]).
> > He did not even waited for the decision from the check user. Because
> > Mr. Gulerdem was unblocked first time form indefinite block under
> > some conditions, I think [[User:Netscott]] and [[User:Azate]] tried
> > really hard to push him into the same violations so that they can
> > ask for reinstatement of the indefinite block
> > ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser/
> > Rgulerdem]).
> > That is the main picture in my mind.
> >
> > Because Dr. Gulerdem was careful this time and we were helping him
> > to naturalize the article the last chance on their part was filing a
> > check user case to claim that he is using sockpuppets to reinstate
> > his indefinite block. They played it professionally and got what
> > they want. Although we did not violate Wikipedia rules, it is
> > strange that we all blocked for being suckpuppets which is in fact
> > not a violation except under some certain situations which are not
> > applicable to our case.
> >
> > What are these guys doing on that Gulen article:
> >
> > [[User:Azate]]'s edits are explained by Dr. Gulerdem at
> > ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser/
> > Rgulerdem#Response]).
> > A check user request is filed about [[User:Azate]] and his earlier
> > accounts and IP's. He claim otherwise but it seems to be that he has
> > been editing on that article for a long time. The request was also
> > asking about any possible relation between these two users but it
> > was not investigated properly. Could you please do a favor to me and
> > quickly check these users. I believe I have the right to learn that
> > and it will be helpful to determine what is really happening.
> > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:RFCU#User:_Azate). Please see my
> > critics about [[User:Azate]]'s edits at
> > ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Fethullah_G%C3%BClen/
> > Archive_2#Azate.27s_vandalism_and_violation_of_WP:OWN]).
> > Other sections of this talk page might give you a better idea about
> > who is doing what on that article.
> >
> > [[User:Netscott]] is making nonsense edits
> > ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Fethullah_G%C3%
> > BClen&diff=next&oldid=53457962])
> > over exaggerating and agitating with a hope of possible violation on
> > the part of Mr. Gulerdem. He is highlighting a link which is
> > irrelevant to the article. Although he has no any significant
> > contribution to the article other than agitation, he is very active
> > in tag'ing the article with NOPV. Please not that they never
> > provided a reason
> > to tag the article with NPOV; that is illogical and not acceptable.
> > I should also add that
> > [[User:Azate]] was 'tag'ing the article while he was revising the
> > article from head to toe as can easily be seen from the history of
> > the main article. I hope this gives some insight
> > about [[User:Netscott]]'s and [[User:Azatte]]'s motivations (The
> > links are provided at
> > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser/
> > Rgulerdem#Response]
> > you can also look at the history of the Gulen's talk page to see the
> > quality of Netscott's edits). I cannot see how he could escape from
> > a block
> > that is applied to two others in the same conflict
> > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN3#User:Netscott] (It should not
> > be surprising to see the support of the same sysop at this link). I
> > have an impression that [[User:Netscott]] is mainly contributing
> > Islam related articles and I have to say that he likes to look at
> > the issues from a negative perspective which cause some problems
> > with other editors. One can check this and see many examples of it
> > from his talk page.
> >
> > Where am I in this picture? I and Hakan found ourselves in the
> > middle of this mess, ideological hatred towards an editor (who we
> > know personally) and 'push him to an indefinite block' game. A check
> > user case is filled for us with the accusation of sockpoppetry, and
> > the decision was incorrect. If you please check the accusations,
> > there is no a single serious statements made among those
> > accusations. In spite of this, they are already answered by Hakan
> > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser/
> > Rgulerdem#Comments_Light.26Truth_and_Mokotok)
> > and Dr. Gulerdem
> > (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser/
> > Rgulerdem#Response).
> >
> > Needless to say that I can survive without Wikipedia. I can also
> > change my name to edit further with a different name if I need and
> > want to. But on the other hand this baseless and inappropriate
> > accusation bothers me a great deal and principals always matter.
> >
> > Thanks for your careful analysis of the dispute and attempt for a
> > just solution to the matter. If you need further explanations (I
> > doubt it!) I will try to give you more insight about the problem.
> >
> > Ceyda Lacin
> >
> >
> >> ------------------------------
> >>
> >> Message: 6
> >> Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 12:58:03 -0600
> >> From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> >> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Unblock Request - nothing more to similar
> >> IP's
> >> To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> >> Cc: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> >> Message-ID: <BB929BAC-CEFD-4EEA-A187-59769FB52E77 at ctelco.net>
> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
> >>
> >> Anyone who is not very disruptive is welcome to edit Wikipedia.
> >> Perhaps you could explain more about this matter to us. I may be the
> >> very sysop who unblocks you, but claiming you did not have three
> >> accounts will not wash.
> >>
> >> Fred
> >>
> >> On May 26, 2006, at 12:47 PM, Ceyda Lacin wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > No there is nothing more to that. I am afraid you are not
> >> > looking at the
> >> > case clearly. The accusations mentioned on the check user page
> >> are not
> >> > legitimate and not serious. All are answered on that page. I am
> >> > expecting a
> >> > sysop unblock me from editing sooner than later.
> >> > Thank you.
> >> > Ceyda.
> >> >
> >> > Message: 9
> >> > Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 11:06:00 -0600
> >> > From: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> >> > Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Unblock request
> >> > To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> >> > Cc: Fred Bauder <fredbaud at ctelco.net>
> >> > Message-ID: <1629A058-13A7-4B46-A829-B9C3B9414DFA at ctelco.net>
> >> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
> >> >
> >> > There is more to it than that.
> >> >
> >> > Fred
> >> >
> >> > On May 26, 2006, at 9:51 AM, Raphael Wegmann wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> Hi,
> >> >>
> >> >> I wonder how you can say, they are the same user,
> >> >> when all you can check is that they are using the
> >> >> same IP-address.
> >> >>
> >> >> best regards
> >> >> --
> >> >> Raphael
> >> >>
> >> >> Fred Bauder wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>> These check out as being the same user. Essjay also checked
> >> this. I
> >> >>> doublechecked.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Fred
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On May 26, 2006, at 4:32 AM, Ceyda Lacin wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> Hi,
> >> >>>> I am fairly new user to Wikipedia with username
> >> >>>> [[User:Light&Truth]]. Dr.
> >> >>>> Gulerdem (with username [[User:Rgulerdem]]) informed me and my
> >> >>>> friend know
> >> >>>> about Wikipedia. We liked the philosophy behind the project.
> >> >>>> Unfortunately
> >> >>>> at a very early stage of our experience in Wikipedia, we face
> >> to an
> >> >>>> inappropriate accusation. Someone claimed that we (me and my
> >> >>>> partner
> >> >>>> [[User:Mokotok]]) are different names for Rgulerdem. It is not
> >> >>>> true. I tried
> >> >>>> to explain it on the check user page:
> >> >>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser/
> >> >>>> Rgulerdem.
> >> >>>> I think the problem is coming from the fact that we are all
> >> >>>> living at the
> >> >>>> same university housing complex and using the same IP's
> >> randomly. I
> >> >>>> understand that check user made his decision based on that.
> >> >>>> I would like to continue to contribute to Wikipedia as
> >> much as I
> >> >>>> can. I
> >> >>>> would like to someone please correct this mistake because we are
> >> >>>> not the
> >> >>>> same person and this unfair accusation bothers me a great deal.
> >> >>>> Thank you in advance.
> >> >>>> Ceyda ([[Light&Truth]])
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> _________________________________________________________________
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> >> >>>> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
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