[WikiEN-l] OT (was Re: Are these userbox templates NPOV?)

Fastfission fastfission at gmail.com
Sat May 13 00:19:00 UTC 2006

I had sent Prasad a few e-mails trying to encourage him that
exaggerating wildly undercut his message more than it did help it, and
was trying to keep it off-list since it has nothing to do with
Wikipedia at all. In any case, I apologize for this getting dragged
back in.

Prasad, again, I do not support most of the policies of the United
States towards terrorism (and certainly do not support racial or
religious stereotyping, coercive interrogation techniques, rendition,
illegal wire-tapping, etc.), but I think you exaggerate the situation
in a way which makes the critical view into a caricature -- an easy
straw man for people to knock down. My goal was not so much to try and
engage in a long discussion over this, but only to suggest that the
sober truth hits harder than does hysterical hyperbole. You are free
to ignore this, of course, as you no doubt will.


On 5/12/06, Prasad J <prasad59 at gmail.com> wrote:
> . The problem is not that Muslims are being shot in
> > airports -- this is not occurring -- the problem is a larger one about
> > perception, about international understanding, about the limits of
> > security states. But all that gets lost when you exaggerate it into
> > some sort of Nazi regime, which it is not. It is not great, but it is
> > something a bit different.
> >
> > FF
> >
> Yes, Muslims are being shot at railway stations actually. However in
> this case, it was not a Muslim at all, it was a Brazilian man who
> looked like a Muslim on account of his brown skin. The London
> Metropolitan Police however assumed that he was a Muslim and shot him
> dead on the spot. Again the police were acting in the belief that
> since he (in their judgement) was a Muslim, he was probably carrying a
> bomb. This event occured shortly after 7/7. As for the "Nazi regime",
> kindly take the time to observe how U.S Marines in Abu Ghraib are
> dragging leashed Muslim men around the place like animals, are using
> attack dogs to torment them, are electrocuting them, and are even
> going so far as to make them form "naked pyramids". Now these
> activities are eerily reminiscent of what Nazi S.S Guards did to Jews
> in concentration camps. Admittedly, the Nazi atrocities occured on a
> much larger scale but the pain and humiliation suffered by the victims
> is the same. A U.S spokesperson responded by saying that the
> atrocities were being looked into-but was quick to add that POWs are
> "trained to fabricate accounts of abuse"- although that does not
> explain the photographs of Ms.Lyndde England putting a leash around a
> naked,cowering Iraqi's neck and dragging him in front of the camera.
> As to complaints of  prisoners at Guatanamo Bay being put through some
> sort of "sensory deprivation"(again notice the photographs of
> prisoners being blindfolded,earmuffed,gagged,and face-masked) and
> other innovative "interrogation techniques" the spokesperson chose to
> remain silent. So you will forgive me if I draw a few parallels
> between such atrocities and those committed by the Nazis (albeit,as I
> said, on a much,much larger scale).
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