[WikiEN-l] WikiEN-l Digest, Vol 34, Issue 32

[Molu]

Ah, look who's being vain. And some people actually call Wikipedia anti-elitist *shakes his head*

  Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 13:58:39 -0700
From: Philip Welch 
Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Cruft
To: English Wikipedia 
Message-ID: <48ECE898-69A0-48C1-83C8-B718CF20AC96 at philwelch.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

On May 3, 2006, at 1:47 PM, charles matthews wrote:

>>>> If someone wants to join that community, they have to learn the
>>>> jargon. Even the most welcoming communities work this way.
>>>
>>> No they don't. You're describing rude, myopic communities with
>>> little real
>>> interest in outreach. Not a global voluntary organisation.
>>
>> Only rude, myopic communities have their own jargon?
>
> Not at all. Medical doctors have jargon, for example. But only 
> certain
> people actually do expect what you say, that is, to join the 
> community you
> must immerse yourself in the jargon. The analogy here is not with 
> becoming
> a doctor, but in taking part in a discussion with one

Exactly. People who become Wikipedians should learn the jargon, and 
it's quite clear that at AfD, the opinions of *wikipedians* are the 
opinions that matter. Not the opinions of every anonymous contributor 
who comes in a vain ballot-stuffing attempt.

>> The purpose of jargon is to make communication easier within a group.
>> Everyone here knows what "cruft" is.
>
> Actually, the thread demonstrates the precise opposite: it is used 
> by people
> who have really no idea of its denotation and connotations.

The explication I read at [[Cruft]] and at the Jargon File's entry 
for "cruft" fit well within what I understood the meaning of "cruft" 
to be on Wikipedia.

>> In AfD contexts, it's extraneous
>> content not suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia.
>
> Well, the actual usage is as a pejorative-type suffix; what you are
> smuggling there into 'extraneous'.

That's not what I'm smuggling there, that's what the word means, and 
that's what I and many others have always understood it to mean. The 
fact that large numbers of people don't know that only reiterates my 
point that we should educate Wikipedians about the jargon.

"Listcruft" is cruft in the form of a list. "Fancruft" is cruft of 
interest only to fans of the topic in question.

>> We're all willing to explain that to newbies. And anyone who's 
>> offended by the
>> word "cruft" needs to grow a thicker skin, because once we start
>> making up euphemisms for it, we'll end up with even more impenetrable
>> jargon than we have now.
>
> As I say, myopic rude jargon-using people miss the point of the 
> Wikipedia
> mission; which is not to send people away seething. Hacker 
> mentality must
> die.

Once again: you deride "myopic rude jargon-using people" for their 
incivility, not realizing that calling people "myopic" and "rude" 
just because they use technical jargon is in itself uncivil.

-- 
Philip L. Welch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Philwelch
		
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