[WikiEN-l] Cruft

[charles matthews]

"Philip Welch" wrote

>>> If someone wants to join that community, they have to learn the
>>> jargon. Even the most welcoming communities work this way.
>>
>> No they don't.  You're describing rude, myopic communities with
>> little real
>> interest in outreach.  Not a global voluntary organisation.
>
> Only rude, myopic communities have their own jargon?

Not at all.  Medical doctors have jargon, for example.  But only certain 
people actually do expect what you say, that is, to join the community you 
must immerse yourself in the jargon.  The analogy here is not with becoming 
a doctor, but in taking part in a discussion with one
.
>Are you saying
> that (for instance) the hacker community, academics, and
> professionals all belong to "rude, myopic communities"?

Those groups can certainly come across that way.  My point is that 
Wikipedians, at their best, do _not_ snow people with jargon, but speak to 
them using the usual English language.

>Are you
> saying that baseball fans are a "rude, myopic community" because they
> use terms unfamiliar to newbies like "strikeout", "walk", and
> "infield fly rule"?

Now you mention it, I have noticed that certain baseball articles have some 
of the worst lead sections I have seen.

> The purpose of jargon is to make communication easier within a group.
> Everyone here knows what "cruft" is.

Actually, the thread demonstrates the precise opposite: it is used by people 
who have really no idea of its denotation and connotations.  The essay at 
[[Wikipedia:Listcruft]] gives numerous possible readings.  People use it not 
with full knowledge, but because they think buzzwords have power that 
rational argument lacks.

> In AfD contexts, it's extraneous
> content not suitable for inclusion in the encyclopedia.

Well, the actual usage is as a pejorative-type suffix; what you are 
smuggling there into 'extraneous'.

>We're all
> willing to explain that to newbies. And anyone who's offended by the
> word "cruft" needs to grow a thicker skin, because once we start
> making up euphemisms for it, we'll end up with even more impenetrable
> jargon than we have now.

As I say, myopic rude jargon-using people miss the point of the Wikipedia 
mission; which is not to send people away seething.  Hacker mentality must 
die.

Charles