[WikiEN-l] MONGO and the ArbCom

Tue Dec 12 22:06:06 UTC 2006

Interesting word choices there.

On 12/12/06, NSLE (Wikipedia) <nsle.wikipedia at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I'm not asking them to reveal their name, am I? Just their Wiki handle. It
> may just be me (although I suspect many, many more people do too), but
> anyone under a name "Concerned Wikipedian" doesn't earn any points in my
> book. Especially relevant, given we're talking about privacy (I wouldn't
> put
> it past WikiReview idiots to be using such handles).
>
> On-topic, though, I see no reason not to go through with it. I cannot
> believe people are using the mailing list to appeal to Jimbo to lighten a
> sentence on an admin - being handled by the ARBCOM - for something which
> is
> obviously de-sysop-able for. Others haven't gotten that consideration, so
> why start now? The ArbCom are technically independent from Jimbo, and I
> don't see why he should intervene.
>
> On 12/12/06, Puppy <puppy at killerchihuahua.com> wrote:
> >
> > NSLE: I suggest you reconsider your position with this in mind - your
> > name is almost certainly not NSLE or Chacor. I know my r/w name is not
> > KillerChihuahua. The majority of Wikipedians and Wikipedia
> > administrators do not contribute under their real names, and for good
> > reason. The same logic which makes using a "handle" on Wikipedia in
> > general a Good Idea also applies here. MONGO has been the target of
> > massive trolling and harassment. It shows good sense to try to insulate
> > oneself from becoming a target of the same people, and the Concerned
> > Wikipedian is doing precisely that. I fail to see how that makes his or
> > her concern any less valid. How precisely are you defining this as
> > "trolling"? I see no trolling, and would appreciate it if you would
> > share your logic with me and the others on this list, as apparently I
> > have missed something.
> >
> > NSLE (Wikipedia) wrote:
> > > Hear, hear. Good decision. Seriously, the second I saw "Concerned
> > > Wikipedian" as the person I knew that this would be something trollish
> > like
> > > this. Seriously now, make the plea openly instead of hiding behind
> > > "Concerned Wikipedian".
> > >
> > > On 12/12/06, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> I would be much more inclined to intervene if you were willing to put
> > >> your reputation on the line and make the defense publicly, rather
> than
> > >> under a pseudonym and throwaway email address.
> > >>
> > >> Concerned Wikipedian wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> Mr Wales,
> > >>>
> > >>> I am hereby writing to you to express my displeasure and discontent
> at
> > >>> "your" Arbitration Committee's decision to desysop MONGO, one of the
> > >>>
> > >> most
> > >>
> > >>> dedicated and resilient users Wikipedia has ever seen.
> > >>>
> > >>> MONGO has had to put up with every kind of harassment you could
> think
> > >>>
> > >> of; by
> > >>
> > >>> definition of [[WP:HA]], a number of users that have forced him into
> > his
> > >>> mental decline should have been blocked and/or banned ages ago.
> > >>>
> > >>> So, I officially protest this decision, and wish you to evaluate it.
> > >>>
> > >> Given
> > >>
> > >>> your ability to veto any decision made by the AC, I hereby request
> > that
> > >>>
> > >> if
> > >>
> > >>> you agree with my sentiment, you use this to stop Wikipedia from
> > losing
> > >>>
> > >> yet
> > >>
> > >>> another prolific administrator and user to the abyss of trolls and
> > >>>
> > >> vandals -
> > >>
> > >>> RickK springs to mind as another.
> > >>>
> > >>> Last time I checked, MONGO wasn't the only administrator who could,
> on
> > >>> occasion, skirt the guidelines of civility. I could name 15 or so
> who
> > do
> > >>>
> > >> it
> > >>
> > >>> worse than he does, and yet it is him who takes the fall.
> > >>>
> > >>> MONGO stood up for NPOV, something you yourself should extremely
> proud
> > >>>
> > >> of -
> > >>
> > >>> Wikipedia wouldn't be Wikipedia without servants like MONGO who try
> to
> > >>>
> > >> keep
> > >>
> > >>> unverified rubbish out, in accordance with "What Wikipedia is not",
> as
> > >>>
> > >> well
> > >>
> > >>> as "Neutral Point of View". Further, your relentless push of making
> > >>> Wikipedia fully verified through "Verifiability" and "Reliable
> > Sources",
> > >>> which I commend you for emphasising, was one of MONGO's ideals, and
> > >>> something he sought to try and create under your direction.
> > >>>
> > >>> There is no denying that MONGO may have overstepped his mark once or
> > >>>
> > >> twice;
> > >>
> > >>> I would be a fool to say so. What I will say, however, is your
> ArbCom
> > >>>
> > >> has
> > >>
> > >>> previously found that "occasional mistakes are entirely compatible
> > with
> > >>>
> > >> [the
> > >>
> > >>> role] – administrators are not expected to be perfect". I believe
> > that,
> > >>> given the crap, for want of a better word, that MONGO has had to
> deal
> > >>>
> > >> with
> > >>
> > >>> in his fight to uphold your, and Wikipedia's, values, he should be
> > given
> > >>> leeway in this precedent.
> > >>>
> > >>> You yourself said that "The Arbitration Committee [...] can impose a
> > >>> solution that I'll consider to be binding, with of course the
> > exception
> > >>>
> > >> that
> > >>
> > >>> I reserve the right of executive clemency and indeed even to
> dissolve
> > >>>
> > >> the
> > >>
> > >>> whole thing if it turns out to be a disaster. But I regard that as
> > >>>
> > >> unlikely,
> > >>
> > >>> and I plan to do it about as often as the Queen of England dissolves
> > >>> Parliament against their wishes, i.e., basically never, but it is
> one
> > >>>
> > >> last
> > >>
> > >>> safety valve for our values". I feel that it is your turn to stand
> up
> > >>>
> > >> and be
> > >>
> > >>> counted, Jimmy, to stand up for our values. Wikipedians are not
> > perfect;
> > >>> administrators are not perfect, by the same token; nor should
> > >>>
> > >> administrators
> > >>
> > >>> be expected to be unflappable in the face of persistent, ridiculous
> > >>>
> > >> trolling
> > >>
> > >>> and harassment that MONGO has had to.
> > >>>
> > >>> Cometh the hour, cometh the man; will you be the man, or will the
> hour
> > >>>
> > >> slip
> > >>
> > >>> you by? I hope you can see the devastation that this would cause
> > >>>
> > >> Wikipedia
> > >>
> > >>> should you decide that the Arbitration Committee, which is becoming
> > more
> > >>>
> > >> and
> > >>
> > >>> more dissented by members of the community as segregated, has
> somehow
> > >>>
> > >> got
> > >>
> > >>> this one right.
> > >>>
> > >>> The question you must ask yourself, in the spirit of IAR: If this
> > >>>
> > >> decision
> > >>
> > >>> will be detrimental to improving or maintaining Wikipedia more than
> > the
> > >>> opposite decision will be, ignore it. You made this official policy
> on
> > >>> August 19, 2006 stating "IAR is policy, always has been". I feel
> that
> > >>>
> > >> this
> > >>
> > >>> is as good a time as any to apply its' principle.
> > >>>
> > >>> -- Concerned Wikipedian
> > >>> _______________________________________________
> > >>> WikiEN-l mailing list
> > >>> WikiEN-l at Wikipedia.org
> > >>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
> > >>> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
> > >>>
> > >>>
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> > >>
> > >>
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-- 
Jim
http://iacobomus.blogspot.com/