[WikiEN-l] Introducing a new mailing list

[The Cunctator]

On 12/5/06, niht-hræfn <nihthraefn at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Dec 5, 2006, at 11:55, Bryan Derksen wrote:
>
> > The Cunctator wrote:
> >> On 12/5/06, Bryan Derksen <bryan.derksen at shaw.ca> wrote:
> >>> And _this_ is pure tripe. Do you really think that my position is
> >>> that I
> >>> don't want women to feel safe? If that's what you're implying
> >>> here I'm
> >>> quite offended and suggest you retract it immediately. I've said
> >>> nothing
> >>> remotely of the sort.
> >>
> >> Umm.... (looking desperately to change the direction of the
> >> conversation....) How about those Nazi userboxes?
> >
> > What, are you saying I'm fat??
> >
> > (note, not actually offended on this one :)
>
> Despite the fact that you're joking, and despite the fact that I'm
> not personally offended, that is a sexist remark. I find it
> especially inappropriate to make jokes at women's expense in a thread
> protesting the idea that women are treated in any way badly on this
> list. If Jew jokes were made every other post or so and this was
> considered okay and funny, I wouldn't be surprised if the Jews on
> list wanted a wikijews-l. More likely though, I'd think they'd leave
> the Wikipedia and Wikimedia projects on the basis that the Wikimedia
> Foundation allows rampant anti-Semitism on their mailing lists.
>
> I really am shocked at the responses on this list. I'd think that the
> proper response would be, "I'm really sorry that you feel this way
> and that we never noticed it before. Is there any way we can make
> help make Wikipedia a more welcoming place for women?" and if the
> women said, "You know, it'd really help to have an all-women mailing
> list where we can talk about things without being ignored or
> dismissed," I'd hope you'd say, "It's a shame it's come to this, but
> if that will help, let's give it a try."
>
> What I really never expected was that the community as it were would
> belittle the concerns brought forward by the women and go so far as
> to make fun of them.


I'm not particularly interested in defending the responses -- a number of
them were shockingly inconsiderate and tellingly misguided -- but it did not
help that an invite-only NO MEN ALLOWED list was announced in response to
the question of making Wikipedia a more welcoming place for women.

A not unreasonable interpretation of that is "You're part of the problem,
but you can't be part of the solution."

At least Wikipedia isn't as bad as most physics departments or investment
banking firms. Not that that's really high bar to hurdle.