[WikiEN-l] VfD is broken

[Eric B. and Rakim]

Agree wholeheartedly, the page is a stupid waste of time and troll bait. 
Noone in their right mind gets involved in it unless they have to cause the 
deletionists is trying to delete a page you have created / authored. The 
freaky things you see there are just disgusting.

1. There is no reason to delete any of the pages there at all. Copyvios 
already has a special page. And there is also already candidates for speedy 
deletion and simple vandalism that is deleted on sight.

2. Everyone using that page to delete articles is sabotaging Wikipedia and 
should be blocked.

3. The page itself should be deleted since it just can't be fixed.

4. Articles about "non-notable" stuff does not hurt Wikipedia. Since noone 
cares about the stuff, noone will link to it and noone will search for it 
and NOONE will ever see it!

5. Except for people that actually  GO AND LOOK for useless articles. But if 
you do, it's your own fault that you find them. Casual surfers and 
non-wikipedians wont find them.

6. And cause those articles are never read by anyone it doesn't hurt to 
remove them from Wikipedia. But that's not why vfd is sabotaging Wikipedia. 
It is because 50-80% of the articles listed there should not and will not be 
deleted. The authors of those articles are forced to defend their work to 
people that just haven't got a clue and never will. Then they have to engage 
in more pointless arguing with the deletionists just to prevent them from 
destroying Wikipedia!

7. The Wikipedia concept is that anyone can edit a page and that only those 
who edits a page gets to determine what information goes into a page. Its 
like "do it yourself cause you can't tell anyone else what to do cause there 
is no way to force them to do it." Now that concept doesn't work with vfd 
cause someone can say "uuuh.. delete unless it is improved in a week.". That 
person basically forces those who care about the article to write what they 
know about it or it will be killed. It is not fair at all.

8. As an example:

NASA Project Gemini Familiarization Manual -- Add to this discussion

The flight manual for the Gemini spacecraft - excellent Wikisource material. 
Transwiki and delete --Rlandmann 00:33, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

    * Transwiki and delete. Geogre 00:54, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    * Transwiki and delete. GeneralPatton 00:55, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
    * Have moved article to Wikisource. Please Delete DarylC 2 Sep 2004

Which of these comments is a total waste of everyones time? Rlandmann's is 
because despite the fact that he had an excellent idea he was to damn lazy 
to carry it out himself as he easily could. Geogre and GeneralPatton just 
seem to show off their excellent talents in agreeing. Finally, DarylC, the 
primary author of the page actually does some work and moves the article. 
Very good DarylC.

The problem with this is that atleast thousand people have been forced to 
read this meaningless junk because Rlandmann didn't place the suggestion to 
transwiki on the article's talk page which would have been the right thing 
to do.

9. Example2: SimonP decided to list Puchland. Puchland seem to be a minor 
webforum that nobody cares about. Because of point 4 above, this listing 
too, is completele useless. And as in point 8 the proper way would have been 
to propose deletion on that articles talk page. Noone but those concerned 
should be the ones taking the decision.

10. The only way to fix vfd would be to allow people to cast the identical 
vote on range of articles listed there.  Then you would be able to vote 
"keep doesn't hurt wikipedia" (or whatever) on each and every article.  
However, the deletionists would never allow such an option because it only 
takes a handful of people to vote in that way for the whole system to break 
down.

IMHO, IANAL, etc, w/e

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