[WikiEN-l] Zero and NPOV: He is avoding the issue by trying to ban me

[Fred Bauder]

Israel Shahak's obituary in the Guardian

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4216853,00.html

puts the lie to your false accusations, Robert.

"chairman of the Israeli League for Human and Civil Rights"

" Israel Shahak, academic, human rights campaigner, born April 28 1933; died
July 2 2001"

Fred

> From: Robert <rkscience100 at yahoo.com>
> Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l at Wikipedia.org>
> Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2004 09:19:18 -0700 (PDT)
> To: wikien-l at wikipedia.org
> Subject: [WikiEN-l] Zero and NPOV: He is avoding the issue by trying to ban me
> 
> Again, Zero is talking out of both sides of his mouth. He
> said that he wanted to engage in moderation. Yet at the
> same time he pushs Shahak's anti-Jewish propaganda as
> facts, he deletes vast chunks of multiple articles when
> they include info he does not agree with, and has started a
> web page dedicated to banning me from Wikipedia. Does that
> sound like a sincere desire to engage in moderation?
> 
> The issue is simple: Do we follow NPOV policy or not?
> 
> Zero has a partisan agenda. Israel Shahak is not accepted
> by any mainstream historians; that is in indisputable fact.
> In every insitution I have studied or taught in, Shahak's
> views are considered false and racist. In contrast,
> Shahak's claims are only accepted by Neo-Nazis, White
> Supremacists, radical Islamic groups, and the like. (Again,
> please do not take my word on this. Please do a Google
> search on this subject and see for yourself who his only
> supporters are.)
> 
> Yet this statement of fact enrages Zero; he doesn't want
> anyone to know this. Yet this is no different than our
> articles on Richard Wagner or on Holocaust deniers. Last
> year, a number of anti-Semites and Holocaust deniers tried
> to damage our articles on these subjects. Fortunately,
> cooler heads prevailed by merely following NPOV policy. Why
> should this article be any different?
> 
> Zero has filled the talk page on the Shahak article with
> personal comments (e..g in his view, Shahaks' claims about
> the Jews are true.) Well, even if all Jews were as racist
> as Shahak and Zero imagine, we would still have to follow
> NPOV policy. This means we say that according to Group A
> and author A, all Jews are racist, but according to group B
> and C, and authors D and E, they are not.
> 
> Remember NPOV? A contributor may have a prejudice, but they
> can stay here if they follow the rules. We have to allow
> articles to present points of view, even if they are points
> of view that we disagree with.
> 
> The long-standing problem with Zero isn't his belief that
> Jews are racist. That's irrevelant. He can believe anything
> he likes about Jews, blacks, gays, whomever. However, the
> long-standing problem is that he refuses to let any POV be
> mentioned except his own. Zero constantly refuses to follow
> POV. And *that* has always been a bannable offense.
> 
> So we have a choice. (A) Ban Zero. (B) Privately talk to
> him, and explain that all points of view must be included,
> even those we happen to disagree with. And mention that
> discussion on Talk pages should be about how to phrase
> facts in the article, and not focused on one person's
> beliefs about the content.
> 
> I hope that he can convinced to follow NPOV.
> 
> Robert (RK)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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