[WikiEN-l] On continued personal attacks,threats, etc.

[Ray Saintonge]

Robert wrote:

>Nat,
>
>>I do disagree with RK calling anyone he dislikes a Nazi,
>>but that's a separate issue.  
>>
>I have tried to stay silent for a week, but the threats and
>personal attacks just keep on coming.
>
Personal attacks are not acceptable behaviour, and should be condemned 
in their own right.  On the other hand extrapolating those attacks on 
one individual into evidence of generalized anti-semitism is not a 
logical consequence. To the extent that apparently anti-semitic comments 
are made, I would suggest that they do not really reflect that attitude. 
 Some people simply use them because they know that one particular 
individual will have excessive reactions.  This sort of thing happens 
all the time on playgrounds.  Although neither practice is socially 
acceptable, a distinction still needs to be made between generalized 
jew-baiting and baiting one specific Jew.

>However, when this issue was brought to the attention of
>the Wiki-En list, I was slandered, called a liar, and worst
>of all, many Wiki-En supporters wrote in support of
>Stevertigo and Martin Harper. Incredibly, no one was
>publicly willing to speak out against anti-Semitic
>propaganda and Holocaust denial.
>
Some of us might think that jumping into these topics would be feeding 
trolls.  Directly confronting Holocaust denial gives it a credibility 
that it could never achieve by itself.

>Look, when people write in support of Nazi propaganda (and
>there is no debate about the edits in question), then in
>those select cases we are forced to admit that they are, by
>definition, anti-Semitic.
>
This is a non-sequitur.  Nazi propaganda dealt with many more issues 
than just anti-semitic ones.  As with any political party, a general 
support of that party does not imply supporting every policy on that 
party's platform.  With a limited number of parties one is often 
confronted at an election with trying to choose the least evil.

>The Wiki-En list is currently ruled by an elite clique of
>political left-wingers who won't allow any un-PC writings
>about Arabs, gays, blacks, Asians, women or socialists. Yet
>this same clique is so anti-Zionist that they will support
>outright anti-Semitism and Christian identity or Nazi
>propaganda, just as a way to make the "enemy" look bad.
>
That is outright nonsense.  In U.S. politics I've seen Jews, to their 
credit, more often associated with the Democratic Party and left-wing 
causes.  The real hardcore fundamentalist anti-semites have a greater 
affinity with the other side of the spectrum.  And please don't confuse 
anti-Zionism with anti-semitism.  

>When Wiki-En members are supportive of such actions, that
>(by definition) is anti-Semitism.
>
No, it is anti-RK-ism.

Ec