[WikiEN-l] Re: Welcome back Adam

[Toby Bartels]

Dante Alighieri wrote:

>Toby Bartels wrote:

>>             Always address and treat individuals in the manner in
>>   which they are expressing themselves. Use names and pronouns
>>   appropriate to the expressed (rather than the genetic or legal)
>>   gender. Give the same respect that you would expect for yourself.

>Of course, if Lir/Adam/Pizza Puzzle would show all of US the respect of
>picking a set of pronouns and damn well sticking to them, this wouldn't be
>a problem. The problem arises because he/she/it can't just use one identity
>consistently... that's his/her/its problem, not mine.

As I mentioned in my previous post,
I've only noticed Lir going by a female persona on Wikipedia.
But since the most recent names (through Pizza Puzzle)
are gender-neutral and people don't usually refer to themselves
in the third person, I really can't be certain about that
(without going through all of her various old edits) --
an uncertainty that I /also/ mentioned in my previous post.

So if you're saying that Lir has called herself male here,
then that's fine.  (Please clarify if that's what you were doing.)

But that's not really what I was talking about at all.
Since I've never seen Lir /object/ to a male pronoun either,
I have no objection to your using a male pronoun.
That would be for Lir to object to, not me!
I was responding to another Wikipedian's post
telling anthère that female pronouns are /wrong/.
Unless Lir has changed her mind, then that's not so.

But anthère and I may both have missed something;
so by all means, if Lir has rejected female pronouns,
then that's fine with me if somebody will just let me know.
But the only objections to such pronouns on this mailing list
are from /other/ people, based on (if anything) the rather irrelevant fact
that Adam has a male legal name and, apparently, a male physical body.
I'm hardly going to pretend that I can tell you what to call Lir,
but don't pretend that you can tell me what to call her either.

>I'm prefectly happy to call L/A/PP he, she, it, or what have you, but I'm
>not changing pronouns on the whim of someone who can't decide which
>identity they're going to be using on a regular basis. Since a majority of
>the identities that I'm familiar with from this individual are male (as
>near as I can tell), I'm going with male.

>Therefore, if he has a problem with that, he can tell me.

I'm sure he will.  I don't have a problem with it.
And since the plurality of Adam's identities that I'm familiar with
(including some from outside Wikipedia) are female,
I'm going with female until Lir herself tells me otherwise.
I don't see any need for a conflict between you and me.


-- Toby