[WikiEN-l] Re: Pronunciations and IPA/SAMPA

[Toby Bartels]

David Friedland wrote about morphophones:

>And it seems like a panacea for the pronunciation problem. But it's not,
>because some words simply have different underlying representations in
>different dialects, and the system only works for dialects that are
>roughly the same except for a few sound changes. It fails for wildly or
>even mildly divergent dialects. The American Heritage Dictionary system
>sweeps this problem under the rug by saying "The pronunciations are
>exclusively those of educated speech", which, to my mind, is a cop-out,
>and not a satisfactory solution for Wikipedia.

How do you mean that morphophones fail for mildly divergent dialects?
What is your reason for thinking such a thing?
Surely not that the American Heritage Dictionary didn't take much effort?
I already said that these dictionaries have unsophisticated systems.
The AHD states its limitations: educated American speech only.
This allows them to cut corners on their implementation.

>However, I do not know of any system
>advocated by linguists other than what phonologists call "broad
>transcription" using IPA. Can you point me to a book or paper, written
>by linguists, that specifies such a system for English, and advocates
>its use by and for general (non-academic) readers?

I've cited the original 1962 paper introducing morphophones before;
I'd have to look up the citation in the archives to repeat it,
but you're already going through those so I'll refrain for now.
But that was an academic paper; what I should do now
is try to track down a more recent (1980s) book that I've read,
written by linguists, which advocates its use outside academic settings.

>I have never encoutered such a system, and I doubt that one exists.
>Barring the existence of a standard system, I don't really see that
>Wikipedia has any other options besides IPA for specifying
>pronunciations. Certainly I hope no one thinks Wikipedia should invent
>its own system. When it comes to standards, it should be our job to
>follow them and describe them, not create them.

I'm not sure to what extent there is a /single/ standard system.
There certainly is at least one system in use by linguists.
Probably with variations due to improved understanding over time,
but whether these are coordinated by a single standards body I don't know.
I will try to track this down too.

>PS: I have made a page on meta called [[Pronunciations]] and am going
>through the list archives and posting links to relevant discussions
>there. I'm not sure what the policy should be regarding where further
>discussion should occur, so if you want to respond, do so either here or
>on the list.

OK, I'll watch it.


-- Toby