[WikiEN-l] The Cunctator again

[Ray Saintonge]

There's no need to personalize this with what Maveric said  That's a cop 
out and evasion of responsibility.  The Community has not authorized 
Maveric to "mandate" anything, not has it pushed that burden on his 
shoulders.  He is a member of the Wikipedia Community like anybody else 
here.  If you choose to elevate his words into some kind of a mandate 
you are doing that as your own personal opinion.  The way I will respond 
to you, is based on the merits of the issue itself, rather than on what 
might or might not have been intended in another person's words.

The entire issue about VfD is about deletions, not about notices or 
headers.  If a long standing credible member with a proven track record 
of community interest removes a VfD notice then maybe you should 
consider that as a strong indication that the article should stay - a 
much stronger indication than one sentence buried in the endless 
verbiage of VfD.  Perhaps that can be taken as an indication that you 
should remove the item from the VfD list entirely.  

Your statement that you were excoriated for "lack of support" I will 
treat as rhetorical flourish.  Your claim that you have acceded to the 
"will if the Wikipedia" is as valid as the crytal ball that gave you 
that impression.  There is very little of such monolithic will on 
Wikipedia.  What we have is a number of articles whose value is suspect; 
some even seem symptomatic of a person with an obsessive disorder (No 
need to mention which.), but nevertheless written in good faith.  The 
rampant judgementalism that pervades VfD is grossly disrespectful 
because it belittles the honest efforts of others, for no other reason 
than the pursuit of the fantasy that they know how to maintain the 
purity of Wikipedia.  If these contributors are doing no harm, let then 
be; let them have the confidence that the little that they could 
contribute is worth something.  That will build a much stronger 
community than an endless litany of rules.

One of the things that I appreciate about Wikipedia is the paucity of 
its rules.  I acknowledge that some people find life in such 
circumstances very difficult.  That could even make them dinosaurs in 
the midst of the tremendous paradigm shift that is being generated by 
the on-line age.  That wildcat is now out of the bag, and there's no 
putting it back in.  The rules don't exist; they can't exist.  That 
security is no longer there, and tough love says that you've got to 
learn to live with it.

Ec

Rick wrote:

> Wow.  When Maveric first "mandated" that the VfD header be included on 
> every article on the VfD page, I objected, claiming that such action 
> was unnecessary.  Not one person came to my defense, and I was 
> attacked and excoriated for my lack of support for Wikipedia.  Now 
> here I am, having bent my neck and acceded to the will of the 
> Wikipedia, and now I'm attacked for putting the headers ON the articles?
>
>  
>
> Will someone please fill me on the rules and when they change?  It 
> seems that no matter what I do, it's wrong.  Every single time I add 
> something to the Main Page article, Maveric deletes it.  What's the 
> point in my being here?
>
>  
>
> "Well done", indeed, right?
>
>  
>
> RickK
>
> Anthere <anthere8 at yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>     From: Ray Saintonge
>
>     Rick wrote:
>
>     >> The Cunctator has now begun marking his deletions
>     of >>VfD headers as
>     >> Minor changes.
>
>     >As long as it doesn't change the meaning of the
>     article, >I guess they are minor.
>
>     >Ec
>
>     Agreed. VfD headers are not especially relevant to the
>     content of the articles. The headers especially deface
>     those articles which have no reasons to be deleted :-)
>