[WikiEN-l] Votes for deletion

[Brion Vibber]

On Sunday 18 May 2003 01:58, sannse wrote:
> Let's bring the conversation back to the essentials :)
>
> I think the current policy on deletions works well and doesn't need
> changing.  We have far too many nonsense pages to list them all for a week,
> we should continue deleting them quickly (by nonsense I mean the
> "jahgkjhkjgh" and random sentence pages).

There's really no need to list things like that, but in general a more open, 
inspectable, reversible deletion process would be better. For instance, if 
the deletion log is improved and connected to the undeletion system, and if 
any user can view deleted pages or undo the deletion during X time period.

This will save on grumbling by making it easier to find and restore things, 
while not adding the huge burden of a manually run list/wait/remove system.

For comparison with some other wikis: on the original WikiWiki at c2.com, 
anyone can mark a page for deletion by replacing its text with a link to 
"DeleteTestAndWelcome" or another such page beginning with "Delete" which 
describes why the page is being deleted. To make the deletion permanent, any 
other user can edit the page and resave it, which erases the stored backup 
revision. To instead cancel the deletion, any user can edit it, call up the 
backup copy, and save it. Actual intervention from Ward would be very rare.

MeatBallWiki has a somewhat similar system, but being UseMod-based it has 
KeptPages (like our page history, but the older revisions are culled after 
some time) and so greater ability to revert. Permanent deletions are made 
automatically after some period of time without being edited if left in the 
'DeletedPage' state.

What we basically have to ask ourselves is: what is the benefit of instantly 
deleting pages with no ability for all but a select few to see and judge what 
was deleted and restore it if appropriate? The most worrisome cases of 
delete-worthy pages we have are probably the suspected copyright violations, 
since their presence in Wikipedia and distribution from our web site and in 
our backup dumps has potential legal implications. Yet, we've apparently 
decided as a community to *not* delete such pages immediately.

So what benefit is there to having the ability? It's a temptation to use it 
where it might not be appropriate; oversight is limited; and most 
significantly it promotes ill-will among those who aren't in the club. That's 
un-Wiki.

Very occasionally it is useful to delete some junk page immediately to fix up 
certain renaming operations, or to delete and immediately restore a page to 
recombine broken page histories. These are very rare administrative actions, 
which could probably be worked into a better interface which is more specific 
to the task.

The general case does _not_ require instant deletions, and would be better 
served by an open, reviewable, reversible process that does go ahead and take 
automatic action after a timeout with no objections.

More comments and constructive suggestions are welcome at:
http://meta.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deletion_management_redesign

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

WikiKarma: 
http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/wikipedia/phase3/includes/Article.php