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At 09:31 04/04/2012, Stracke, Christian wrote:<br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">Content-Language: de-DE<br>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;<br>
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<br>
Dear Denny,<br>
<br>
thanks for your feedback:<br>
indeed you have to pay for the MLR standards (as it is the business model
of ISO what I also do not like).</blockquote><br>
Dear all, <br><br>
Denny's remark and Christian's responses are important to us, because
they show a structural difference of two complementary thinkings of which
we need to interface the ideas because they make the today's world
:<br><br>
- ISO's approach is of an heavy cinematic, respecting the course of the
nation states innovation (heavy industrial investments) in the
international post WWII world. They do not even think that metadata
specialists may be pennyless and that their users only trust what they
know they can check by themselves.<br><br>
- the Internet community approach is of an open dynamic involving lead
users' innovation (open source development) in the so called
"information society" where a printed working document is a
pain because you need to scan and OCR it before you can work on/with
it.<br><br>
Ignorance of the technical law is no excuse, but knowledge of the
technical law if not free. This is a "techne" evolution of our
world and a transition problem everyone faces at different levels. For
example, IETF considers ISO as a UN dinosaur, and I facilitate a non-WG
IETF list for lead users contributions, i.e. wiki documents oriented
people who considers the IETF as a dynosaur.<br><br>
This does not affect the pertinence of the work being achieved. ISO and
open Standardisation and Documentation Organizations (oSDOs). The JTC1
work is of the essence. In particular in what concerns analysis (in
networking we all understand the importance, but also the uncompleteness,
of the OSI 7 layers model). <br><br>
We need access to the ideas and experience (freedom of legitimate
knowledge) contained in the documents quoted by Christian. It is true
that the OSI economic model is totally outdated and that the first thing
Wikidata has to do is to publish them for free (this is already the case
for the ITU documents). I have, on behalf of the IUse commuity a long
standing understanding with the ISO's lawyer that we need to settle
something, but this is not moving fast, this is to say the least :-)
<br><br>
What can be donne is :<br><br>
- to use the metadata-stds.org/19763/index.html working versions prior to
publications when available.<br>
- Christian says that the JTC1/SC3X contributions are ISO 11179 and
ISO 19763. The frameworks are the first documents (i.e. 11179-1 and
19763-1). You look for them as PDF on Google. <br><br>
You can have ISO 11179-1 version for the vote free on line.
<br>
You can have ISO 19763-1 for $ 8 at
<a href="http://www.e-standard.org/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&inc_subcat=1&search_in_description=1&zenid=6a3f50e10a7aa57da464d3f481aac77a&categories_id=&keyword=ISO%2FIEC+19763&x=0&y=0" eudora="autourl">
http://www.e-standard.org/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&inc_subcat=1&search_in_description=1&zenid=6a3f50e10a7aa57da464d3f481aac77a&categories_id=&keyword=ISO%2FIEC+19763&x=0&y=0<br>
<br>
</a>My personal plans, but I am alone on this for the time being and
there miss some mind mapping tools, is to work on the ISO documents and
extract what is necessary to understand and interface their systems and
to make it a for information RFC. Until I can sue ISO for betraying the
users' trust in order to help them documenting to governments their need
for alternative financing. <br><br>
Best <br>
jfc<br><br>
PS. I believe that the minimum we need is to have a common vocabulary
concerning concepts, and from there a good rough understanding of their
model and communications protocols. My priority (but I have many things
to do).<br><br>
<blockquote type=cite class=cite cite="">But there are several unique
advantages of the ISO standards:<br>
First, transparent and open process of their development (according the
openly available ISO directives).<br>
Second, voting by national delegations from the United Nations' and ISO
member states.<br>
Third, balanced voting (one country, one vote!).<br>
Fourth, ISO standards can be used without any costs, without any
licensing and without any patent problems (if not clearly stated
differently on the first page).<br>
<br>
That means, only one person has to contribute the standard and then you
can use it for any project including your Wikimedia projects.<br>
Therefore I would not call the fact that the standard is sold by ISO as a
big obstacle for its use.<br>
<br>
Hope that it helps and clarifies.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Christian<br>
<br>
<br>
With best regards<br>
<br>
Christian Stracke<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Christian M. Stracke<br>
Convener ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36/WG5<br>
Chair CEN TC 353<br>
HR, E-Learning, Quality and Competence Development<br>
University of Duisburg-Essen, Campus Essen<br>
Information Systems for Production and Operations Management<br>
Universitaetsstr. 9 (FB WIWI: ICB)<br>
D-45141 Essen (Germany)<br>
<br>
Tel.: +49-(0)201-183-4410<br>
Fax: +49-(0)201-183-4067<br>
E-mail:
<a href="Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.htm">
Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de</a><br>
WWW:
<a href="http://www.wip.uni-due.de/">http://www.wip.uni-due.de</a><br>
<b><br>
eCOTOOL harmonizes competence models for European policies<br>
</b><a href="http://www.ecompetence.eu/">http://www.ecompetence.eu</a><br>
<b><br>
WACOM for Water Competences in Europe<br>
</b><a href="http://www.wacom-project.eu/">http://www.wacom-project.eu</a>
<br>
<b><br>
Q.E.D. supports quality and standards in e-learning<br>
</b><a href="http://www.qed-info.de/">http://www.qed-info.de</a><br>
<b><br>
CEN/TC 353 "ICT for Learning, Education and Training"<br>
</b><a href="http://www.cen.eu/isss/TC_353">
http://www.cen.eu/isss/TC_353</a><br>
<b><br>
ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36 "IT for Learning, Education and
Training"<br>
</b><a href="http://www.sc36.org/">http://www.sc36.org</a><br>
<br>
<b>Von:</b> Denny Vrandečić
[<a href="mailto:denny.vrandecic@wikimedia.de" eudora="autourl">
mailto:denny.vrandecic@wikimedia.de</a>] <br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Dienstag, 3. April 2012 11:30<br>
<b>An:</b> Discussion list for the Wikidata project.<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Stracke, Christian<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [Wikidata-l] Wikidata: New ISO Metadata standard MLR
published last year<br>
<br>
Dear Christian,<br>
<br>
thanks for your pointers!<br>
<br>
I clicked on the first part of the three parts you have listed. It tells
me to pay 162 Swiss Franks to even read the standard. Wikimedia is
devoted to free knowledge, which includes the software and standards we
use. Therefore I am afraid that such a standard is not very high on our
priorities for things to be considered for our mission.<br>
<br>
Cheers,<br>
Denny<br>
<br>
<br>
2012/4/3 Stracke, Christian
<<a href="mailto:Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de">
Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de</a>><br>
Dear all,<br>
<br>
I would like to draw your attention to the latest international metadata
standard from ISO (International Standardization Committee established by
the United Nations in 1949):<br>
<br>
ISO/IEC 19788, called MLR (= Metadata for Learning Resource, named for
historical reasons but applicable for any resources).<br>
<br>
MLR was developed and approved by the national delegations from all five
continents after eight years of development and discussion in ISO
committee SC36
(<a href="http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/open/jtc1sc36">
http://isotc.iso.org/livelink/livelink/open/jtc1sc36</a>).<br>
It is completely compliant with Dublin Core (also adopted as ISO
standard).<br>
And only ISO (<a href="http://www.iso.org">www.iso.org</a>) can approve
and publish official and de-jure standards at the international
level.<br>
The first three parts are published: <br>
<a href="http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=50772">
http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=50772</a>
<br>
<a href="http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=46157" eudora="autourl">
http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=46157</a>
<br>
<a href="http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=52774">
http://www.iso.org/iso/iso_catalogue/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=52774</a>
<br>
<br>
MLR is already adopted in many countries as national standards and used
in implementations (mainly in Asia).<br>
Currently the voting has been started in the European Standardization
Committee CEN TC 353
(<a href="http://www.cen.eu/CEN/sectors/sectors/isss/Pages/CEN%20TC%20353.aspx">
http://www.cen.eu/CEN/sectors/sectors/isss/Pages/CEN TC 353.aspx</a>)
that MLR is adopted as European Norm (EN) by CEN, too.<br>
Then MLR as EN will automatically withdraw all national metadata
standards in Europe that are in conflict with MLR for harmonization
across Europe.<br>
I assume that after approval as European Norm the implementation of MLR
will increase immediately in Europe, too.<br>
<br>
Therefore I recommend to consider the usage and implementation of MLR as
metadata standard for the metadata description of the data.<br>
<br>
I hope that it helps for setting up Wikidata.<br>
Thank you very much for your consideration and feedback!<br>
<br>
Best wishes<br>
Christian<br>
<br>
<br>
With best regards<br>
<br>
Christian Stracke<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Christian M. Stracke<br>
Convener ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36/WG5<br>
Chair CEN TC 353<br>
HR, E-Learning, Quality and Competence Development<br>
University of Duisburg-Essen, Campus Essen<br>
Information Systems for Production and Operations Management<br>
Universitaetsstr. 9 (FB WIWI: ICB)<br>
D-45141 Essen (Germany)<br>
<br>
Tel.:
<a href="tel:%2B49-%280%29201-183-4410">+49-(0)201-183-4410</a><br>
Fax: <a href="tel:%2B49-%280%29201-183-4067">+49-(0)201-183-4067</a><br>
E-mail:
<a href="http://Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de">
Christian.Stracke@icb.uni-due.de</a><br>
WWW:
<a href="http://www.wip.uni-due.de/">http://www.wip.uni-due.de</a><br>
<b><br>
eCOTOOL harmonizes competence models for European policies<br>
</b><a href="http://www.ecompetence.eu/">http://www.ecompetence.eu</a><br>
<b><br>
WACOM for Water Competences in Europe<br>
</b><a href="http://www.wacom-project.eu/">http://www.wacom-project.eu</a>
<br>
<b><br>
Q.E.D. supports quality and standards in e-learning<br>
</b><a href="http://www.qed-info.de/">http://www.qed-info.de</a><br>
<b><br>
CEN/TC 353 "ICT for Learning, Education and Training"<br>
</b><a href="http://www.cen.eu/isss/TC_353">
http://www.cen.eu/isss/TC_353</a><br>
<b><br>
ISO/IEC JTC1 SC36 "IT for Learning, Education and
Training"<br>
</b><a href="http://www.sc36.org/">http://www.sc36.org</a><br>
<br><br>
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