<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif">According to <a href="https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikip%C3%A9dia:Conventions_typographiques#NON_C.C3.89SURE_NOMBRE_NOM">w:fr:WP:TYPO</a>, we should use non-breakable spaces in French long format dates.<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-01-23 19:36 GMT+01:00 Philippe Verdy <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:verdy_p@wanadoo.fr" target="_blank">verdy_p@wanadoo.fr</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">There'a absolutely no need of non-breaking spaces in French dates ! The numeric format "dd/mm/yyyy" has no space at all. The long format "dd monthname yyyy" uses standard spaces for word separation (they are breakable). And there's NEVER any space in the middel of the year.<div><br></div><div>However the French non-breaking spaces are need for punctuations (before "!", "?", ":" or in the middle of « guillemets » (standard French quotation marks) or in numbers as group separators. These should ideally be narrower than standard spaces (i.e. NNBSP U+203F rather than NBSP U+00A0). But none of these occur in French dates.</div><div><br></div></div><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-01-23 19:09 GMT+01:00 Pols12 <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:poltron54@gmail.com" target="_blank">poltron54@gmail.com</a>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif">According to me, it’s a real improvement.<br><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif">How can we edit or suggest an edit to the date format?<br>Indeed, we used to use non-breaking spaces in French dates.<br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:comic sans ms,sans-serif">Pols12<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">2017-01-23 8:45 GMT+01:00 mathieu stumpf guntz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psychoslave@culture-libre.org" target="_blank">psychoslave@culture-libre.org</a><wbr>></span>:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><font face="Linux Biolinum O">Well, I don't have much knowledge
about calendar living practices beyond Greogorian calendar, sorry
if I misunderstood your problem. Does that also apply to day
names, or just month names?<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Linux Biolinum O">Would you be kind enough to give me
some concrete examples of what you would like to obtain and what
are possible side effect you are concern about, with some
explanation and latin transcription (if possible)?</font></p>
<p><font face="Linux Biolinum O">I still believe adding other
calendar support might have some interest. But maybe it would be
more relevant to continue this aspect of the discussion on the <a href="https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T155824" target="_blank">phabricator
ticket</a>.</font><br>
</p><div><div class="m_7821255346579296507m_5009463305934617826h5">
<br>
<div class="m_7821255346579296507m_5009463305934617826m_4845264401579045547moz-cite-prefix">Le 20/01/2017 à 13:40, Haytham Abulela
ALY a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Hi
Mathieu,</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">My
comment is not related to Assyrian or Aramaic. The issue is
that countries of the Levant and Mesopotamia have applied the
names of the Assyrian/Aramaic calendar to the Gregorian
calendar in Arabic letters. This has become a norm for
decades. I think that all that needs to be done in this regard
is to update the list from which the string of code suggested
retrieves values, and the string of code shall remain as is
without any changes necessary. My concern here would be that
this might affect values in cells of tables, since the string
of text will comprise of two or three words. If this matter
becomes a nuisance, we may ignore it as the current state of
affairs is suitable for the majority of Arabic speakers. I was
trying to have an inclusive approach instead of favouring one
format over another.</div>
<div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Regards,</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 20 January 2017 at 02:25, mathieu
stumpf guntz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:psychoslave@culture-libre.org" target="_blank">psychoslave@culture-libre.org</a><wbr>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
<p><font face="Linux Biolinum O">Saluton Haytham,<br>
</font></p>
<p><font face="Linux Biolinum O">If you look at <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions#.23time" target="_blank">the documentation</a>, non-Gregorian
formating is supported. Now having a deeper look at
it, it seems that <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assyrian_calendar" target="_blank">Assyrian calendar</a> is not yet in
the set of supported calendars, so a phabricator
ticket should be filled here I think, shouldn't it. I
don't know what is the the ISO 639-3 you would like to
use "<i>aii</i>" (Assyrian Neo-Aramaic) or <i>"arc</i>"
(Aramaic language), but in both case <a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/User:Psychoslave/asiria_kalendaro" target="_blank">it seems that localization is
missing</a> for already provided month names.<br>
</font></p>
<font face="Linux Biolinum O">So for the sake of the
example, let's say there was a "xaF" formatting code
which would provide an Assyrian calendar full month
name, then as far as I understand, you would like to
use:</font><br>
<blockquote>
<p><tt>{{#time:xaF|$date1|aii</tt><code></code><tt>}}
({{#time:F|$date1|aii</tt><code></code><tt>}})</tt></p>
</blockquote>
<p><tt>Thank you Johan for the feedback request. We have
here and there complaints when staff is argued to not
take enough into account community advises, so it
seems fair to also emphasize actions when they are
done with a community feedback in the loop.<br>
</tt></p>
<div class="m_7821255346579296507m_5009463305934617826m_4845264401579045547m_-8350684764110810710moz-cite-prefix">Le
19/01/2017 à 18:58, Haytham Aly a écrit :<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Georgia">Hi Johan,</font></font></p>
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Georgia">This idea is
brilliant.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Georgia">My own concern
for Arabic is that there are two major ways for
displaying Gregorian month names; transliteration
as well as the Assyrian names. Usually
transliterated names suffice, but I prefer using
both divided by a slash. This is due to
differences in official use, since transliterated
names are used in Egypt, Sudan, Libya, Yemen, and
Gulf states; while Assyrian names are used in
Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan and Palestine. Could
this automation function render both or just the
common transliterated month names? It would be a
bonus to have both displayed, though only
transliterated month names would suffice.</font></font></p>
<p><font size="-1"><font face="Georgia">Regards,</font></font><br>
</p>
<pre class="m_7821255346579296507m_5009463305934617826m_4845264401579045547m_-8350684764110810710moz-signature" cols="72">Haytham Abulela Aly
Freelance Translator
Creative Translation
"Creative & Confident"
Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)
Arab Professional Translators' Society member (#10850)
Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)
Registered at ProZ.com and LinkedIn.com</pre>
<div class="m_7821255346579296507m_5009463305934617826m_4845264401579045547m_-8350684764110810710moz-cite-prefix">On
19/01/2017 8:31 AM, Johan Jönsson wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi everyone,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>TL;DR: Dates in items that are in the
newsletter every week could be in a format that
means you could get a 100% in the translation
memory and not have to change the days and months
every week. Do you want this?</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Longer version:</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Based on Mathieu's suggestion, I've tested
adding dates within <tvar> tags. This makes
it more complicated the first time you translate,
but should mean that you can then use a 100% match
from the translation memory every time and just
click on it the same way you do for any other
content that stays exactly the same, instead of
manually having to change the days and months
every new week.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>It looks like this:<br>
{#time:<tvar|defualtformat>d
xg</>|<tvar|date1>2017-01-24</<wbr>>|<tvar|format_language_code>{<wbr>{CURRENTCONTENTLANGUAGE}}</>}}
which means that I get this when I translate:<br>
{{#time:$defualtformat|$date1|<wbr>$format_language_code}}.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>For Swedish, I can just keep it like that:
Where the English original said "24 January" the
Swedish translation will say "24 januari". </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Some languages write dates in another format.
For Mandarin Chinese, the first time I do a
translation I need to change it to
{{#time:n月j日|$date1|$format_la<wbr>nguage_code}}
(and the same for $date2 and $date3). I imagine
RTL languages will need to change something too
the first time they translate this, for example.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>All possible options are described here:<br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Extension:ParserFunctions#.23time" target="_blank">https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki<wbr>/Help:Extension:ParserFunction<wbr>s#.23time</a> </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Pro: Less burden for returning translators. You
translate this once, whether you change the date
format or not, then you just click on the
translation in the translation memory next week.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Con: More complicated. More difficult for new
translators, especially if the standard format
doesn't match the norms of their language.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The question: Do you want this, or did you
prefer it the way it was? This is all about making
it as easy as possible for you, so you decide.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Translate&group=page-Tech%2FNews%2F2017%2F04&action=page" target="_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/i<wbr>ndex.php?title=Special:Transla<wbr>te&group=page-Tech%2FNews%2F20<wbr>17%2F04&action=page</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><a href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tech/News/2017/04" target="_blank">https://meta.wikimedia.org/wik<wbr>i/Tech/News/2017/04</a><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>//Johan Jönsson</div>
<div>--</div>
</div>
<br>
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<div class="m_7821255346579296507m_5009463305934617826m_4845264401579045547gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><font face="georgia, serif">Haytham Abulela ALY
<a href="http://www.stibc.org/page/certified%20member%20directory/ezlist_member_1f249e57-9d21-47fc-8d39-11a26d993a66.aspx?_s=http%3a%2f%2fwww.stibc.org%2fpage%2fcertified+member+directory.aspx" target="_blank">Certified member of the Society of Translators and Interpreters of British Columbia (STIBC) (EN>AR)</a>
<a href="http://www.arabtranslators.org/Certification/certified_members_801_900.aspx" target="_blank">Arab Professional Translators' Society certified member (#10850)</a>
<a href="http://www.egyta.com/k2-showcase/k2-latest-item/letter-h/letter-hn" target="_blank">Certified member at Egyptian Translators Association (EGYTA)</a>
<font size="2"><a href="http://ca.linkedin.com/in/haythamhammam" target="_blank">Profile on LinkedIn</a></font>
<a href="http://www.proz.com/translator/895138" target="_blank">Profile on ProZ.com </a>
</font><div><font face="georgia, serif">
</font></div><div><font face="georgia, serif"><span style="color:rgb(51,153,102);font-size:9px;line-height:19px">Please consider your environmental responsibility.</span>
<span style="color:rgb(51,153,102);font-size:9px;line-height:19px">Before printing this e-mail message, ask yourself whether you really need a hard copy.</span></font>
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