<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">As speculative as the reporting might be, I do think they're on point with the irony: "It's beyond ironic that Zappos wants its employees to get excited about losing hierarchy in the operation when the hierarchical structure is exactly what allowed the leadership to force 'Holacracy' into place."</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">Yet to call this a failure of self-direction would be a failure to see beyond the superficial marketing (and reductively prescriptive nature) of Holacracy. It's a bit like saying that Stalin's Five Year Plans were failures of socialism when there was not a kernel of socialism left in the Soviet Union by that point—or ever, really, thanks to the Bolsheviks who had utter contempt for "the masses".</div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote"><br></div><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 18, 2016 at 12:56 PM, Adam Wight <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:awight@wikimedia.org" target="_blank">awight@wikimedia.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Thanks, I'd be interested to hear the perspective from the insiders, too, I'll forward if I find anything. </p>
<p dir="ltr">The Forbes article is quite dishonest reporting, as much as I agree with the sentiment behind it. 18% turnover seems low considering the 3+ month severance deal they offered everyone, and there is no comparison to the turnover prior to their structural changes. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Another enormous hole is the assumption that everything at zappos is still decided in a top down way. I think that's unlikely to be the case, and anyway it would require interviews or other real data to make that claim. </p>
<p dir="ltr">Looking forward to learning more! </p><span class=""><font color="#888888">
<p dir="ltr">Adam </p></font></span><div class=""><div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Jan 18, 2016 12:35 PM, "Grace Gellerman" <<a href="mailto:ggellerman@wikimedia.org" target="_blank">ggellerman@wikimedia.org</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Follow up: <div><br></div><div><a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan/2016/01/18/whats-causing-zappos-to-hemorrhage-talent/#443ea49435d931be6f2b35d9" rel="noreferrer" style="display:inline!important" target="_blank">http://www.forbes.com/sites/lizryan/2016/01/18/whats-causing-zappos-to-hemorrhage-talent/#443ea49435d931be6f2b35d9</a><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Oct 12, 2015 at 3:18 PM, Max Binder <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:mbinder@wikimedia.org" target="_blank">mbinder@wikimedia.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Late to the party, but this stuck out to me as familiar:<br><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">old-fashioned management
hierarchies stifle innovation, because they naturally generate informal
rules and cliques of powerful insiders, which is inefficient and
demoralizing, so a new and better system would be founded on clear,
transparent rules. Even better, the rules should be flexible and
adaptable, so governance procedures should be incorporated into the
system.</blockquote><div><br><blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex" class="gmail_quote">when everyone knows the drill it eliminates much of the time-wasting
verbosity and psychological microdrama that often turns workdays into an
endless series of unproductive jaw-sessions.</blockquote><div><br></div><div>There's also a lot that makes the Zappos approach seem dogmatic, but it's hard to quote. Good read. <br></div><div><br> </div></div></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Arthur Richards <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arichards@wikimedia.org" target="_blank">arichards@wikimedia.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_extra">While the article doesn't mention Holocracy, it DOES mention Holacracy. I should have skimmed closer rather than just searching the article with command+f for a misspelled word :p</div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 2:58 PM, Arthur Richards <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arichards@wikimedia.org" target="_blank">arichards@wikimedia.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Oh, and of course: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holacracy" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holacracy</a></div><div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Arthur Richards <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:arichards@wikimedia.org" target="_blank">arichards@wikimedia.org</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I haven't read the article yet but did notice they don't mention Holocracy in it. If you're not familiar with it, Holocracy is a a 'complete system for self-organization' - it's an organizational system that tries to apply agile principles at an organizational and management scale. Interesting stuff - Zappos is probably the most well known org that uses Holocracy. Read more:<div><a href="http://www.zapposinsights.com/about/holacracy" target="_blank">http://www.zapposinsights.com/about/holacracy</a><br></div><div><a href="https://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/blog/holacracy-and-the-search-for-agile-organization" target="_blank">https://www.mountaingoatsoftware.com/blog/holacracy-and-the-search-for-agile-organization</a><br></div><div><a href="http://www.holacracy.org/" target="_blank">http://www.holacracy.org/</a><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><span>On Tue, Oct 6, 2015 at 2:47 PM, Grace Gellerman <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ggellerman@wikimedia.org" target="_blank">ggellerman@wikimedia.org</a>></span> wrote:<br></span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><span><div dir="ltr"><div>I think that groups self-organize rather than individuals, but there's some truth is stranger than fiction material in here:</div><div><br></div><a href="http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122965/can-billion-dollar-corporation-zappos-be-self-organized" rel="noreferrer" style="display:inline!important" target="_blank">http://www.newrepublic.com/article/122965/can-billion-dollar-corporation-zappos-be-self-organized</a><br></div>
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