[MediaWiki-l] What PHP version do you use?

Francis Franck francis.franck at gmail.com
Tue Dec 8 09:06:12 UTC 2015

Apart from technical ability, there is also practical ability, tharpenator.
I guess I'd be able to install VisualEditor for example, but unfortunately
I'm not the owner of a server and I have no command-line access. No
Parsoid, no VisualEditor

This not only makes me jealous of the "real" Wikipedia, but I'm also
struggling with diminishing support for the other editors like WYSIWYG.

On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 11:31 PM, <tharpenator at gmail.com> wrote:

> Bill, I think you're right there's different classes of Mediawiki
> administrators, but I also think you're missing the bigger picture. I use
> composer, the command line, etc., and find it's great. The nexus of the
> problem is the one you identified: the development of Mediawiki is almost
> 100% directed by the needs of Wikipedia, which is understandable, but also
> very limiting. I don't want a command GUI based administration experience
> for me, but I want it as an option for the mass majority of people who will
> move on to an easier software if they don't have it. Why should we care if
> people move on? Options. The more people who use Mediawiki the better the
> software will be become. More & better extensions will be created faster,
> more skins will be created, etc., the easier the software is to use. How
> many more plugins & extensions exist in the Joomla & Wordpress ecosystems
> than Mediawiki's?
> Why did Mediawiki finally come out with a VisualEditor? Because of concern
> about the declining number of editors in Wikipedia. The mass majority of
> world wants to just write without concern for syntax. Creating a
> VisualEditor was an exercise in making it easy for new Wikipedians (I know
> there was a revolt about that, but that's another story). Maybe, just
> maybe, the same thought process that is directing the development of easier
> end user interfaces could be directed at making it easier for more people
> to use the software (maybe installing VisualEditor should be as easy as
> using it). The mission of Wikipedia is to empower people by giving free
> access to knowledge (paraphrase); shouldn't Mediawiki empower more people
> also (not just the technical able)?
> Sent from my iPad
> > On Dec 7, 2015, at 1:25 PM, Bill Traynor <btraynor at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps I'm confused, but it sounds to me like there are certain
> > classes of MediaWiki administrators out there.  There's those who
> > would prefer a hands free experience, or at the very least a point and
> > click GUI-based administration experience and those that are would
> > prefer a more command-line based, power-user administrative
> > experience.  Am I wrong?
> >
> > Personally, I fall in the latter group.  I prefer to track MediaWiki
> > and all extensions from the command line using Git.  I've never used
> > Composer up to this point and have had no problems.
> >
> > My only gripe about MediaWiki is that the development road map seems
> > to be directed foremost by the needs of Wikimedia in support of
> > Wikipedia.  Of course, I can't really complain as it's FOSS and if I
> > was highly motivated, I could develop the things I really want.
> > Examples being somewhat "enterprisey", like better Oracle support,
> > finer grained and flexible content management, etc. etc.
> >
> >> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 3:55 PM, Francis Franck <
> francis.franck at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I'm afraid you've got a point there, Boris. Your not alone.
> >>
> >> Contrary to you, I 've (up to now) tried to keep everything up to date.
> I
> >> must now admit that the advantages of doing so are rapidly vanishing.
> Too
> >> often this ends in a time consuming trial and error, leading into fault
> >> messages and malfunction, hence a loss of confidence. I think I will
> change
> >> policies and keep things as they are until I notice a more coherent
> upgrade
> >> approach.
> >>
> >> On Mon, Dec 7, 2015 at 9:34 PM, Boris Steipe <boris.steipe at utoronto.ca>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Just to counter that, you are overlooking a crucial point ...
> >>>> On Dec 7, 2015, at 11:44 AM, Ray Paseur <ray.paseur at armedia.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I believe that using the latest software is almost always a good idea.
> >>> We are going to upgrade eventually - why deny ourselves the benefits
> of the
> >>> latest software by putting off the upgrades?  The only argument in
> favor of
> >>> delay would be a breaking change, and this is something that the
> authors of
> >>> the software must publicize.
> >>>
> >>> I hold off updates as long as at all possible, the reason being that
> over
> >>> the last years new versions of the software have almost never come with
> >>> tangible benefits to my core use. It is almost always just fixing
> >>> edge-cases we don't care about and better support for things we don't
> use.
> >>> Why? Because we have developed a workflow around the software as it
> existed
> >>> about three years ago and there is really no reason to change that. The
> >>> benefit of not using the latest is that we get to skip releases and
> frankly
> >>> every single release just takes way, way to long to install and verify
> and
> >>> fix across our multiple Wikis. Every release I can skip gives me half
> a day
> >>> of my life!
> >>>
> >>> The release cycles are too short. As far as I'm concerned, MediaWiki
> works
> >>> oK, if it would do just what it does; that would be nice, and aspiring
> to
> >>> anything else is just not what I'm interested in. The only reason why
> I'm
> >>> constantly on the lookout for alternatives to MW are the frequent
> >>> required/recommended updates.
> >>>
> >>> I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in this.
> >>>
> >>> Now, if a new version would come out that would autoupdate and
> configure
> >>> itself and make sure it keeps on working with my (completely standard)
> >>> extensions, that would be nice. Too modern?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Boris
> >>> _______________________________________________
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