[Mediawiki-l] Is MediaWiki-l dysfunctional? What is it good for, really? and Re: Any leads on a basic wiki setup-and-configure instruction manual?

Monahon, Peter B. Peter.Monahon at USPTO.GOV
Fri May 25 16:31:31 UTC 2007

> Daniel wrote: ... I did this [install 
> MediaWiki on Windows]with the 
> EXISTING notes on MediaWiki.org. 
> I didn't do anything out of the 
> ordinary. If you are finding this 
> hard, you should hire an expert 
> to help you ... I have done 5 
> MediaWiki installations, on the 
> same PC and on different PCs, 
> using nothing but the instructions. 
> If you are finding this too hard, 
> I recommend you hire an expert.

Peter Blaise responds: 


Please try LESS work and instead of arguing and telling me to hire "an
expert" (as if I've had much luck finding any who are wiling to prove
their value here!  And, without a reference to a specific expert with
which you've had success, well then, what's a referral good for
anyway?!?), why not just respond with a LINK as was missing from your
original posts, and was asked for?

A link, man, a LINK?!?  That is all I ask for!

And when you Googled to resolve a conflict, since that was a departure
from the "official instructions" can you help out with a link there,

A link, man, a LINK - that is all I ask for!

Please, Daniel.  Way less work has been asked of you than you proffered
here!  No explanations or retributions needed.  Save your energies, man!

Instead, how about simply sharing the 2 links YOU used to accomplish
your success?


-- Peter Blaise


> Kasimir wrote: ... do not ask people for 
> their success stories. They take a *very* 
> long time to write up ... If something is 
> going to take a long time ... I just don't 
> feel like doing it ... There is no way that 
> I am going to spend a day writing up 
> everything that I did ... you do not 
> understand the fundamental workings 
> of the code ... Play around with simple 
> projects until you understand how code 
> and sysadmining works ... you should 
> first become very comfortable with the 
> basics, and with the ideas behind how 
> code functions, before jumping into a 
> project ... any amount of documentation 
> about MediaWiki would not help you at 
> this point ... step back a bit and just 
> understand the basics ...

Peter Blaise responds: 

Thanks ... I think.  

I am playing with the basics.  

I am playing around.  

I am exploring what happens when I install and try different choices for
each component.  Over and over.

I thought maybe someone in or using MediaWiki might have already
confirmed a decision tree that best supports MediaWiki so that MediaWiki
has the best chance for success in the end user's hands - with official
guidance: "these specific decision trees work for us".  I was wrong -
oh, so wrong!  And even asking for such - wrong again!  Shame on me!

While I understand why some people do not want to share their success
stories, that is still all I ask for, and all I can offer (failure
stories, too)!

I'll revisit http://www.wikipedia.org/ and http://www.mediawiki.org/ and
see what they're made of ... OH, they're made of people contributing
contents that makes sense to them, and some of it appears to have taken
a long, long, *very* long time to master and share!  Oh, my!  Why on
earth would they do that?!?  =8^o

Kasimir, I think you are insincere.  You say it would take a long time,
but you are only speculating, not speaking from experience.  If you were
speaking from experience, you'd have already done the documentation and
known exactly how long it took, and then you'd be able to quickly share
your documentation regardless.  You say it would be useless to you or
anyone else but again you are speculating.  I value it.  I imagine you
and others would too, especially if you shared it on MediaWIki.org. 

My experience?  I see automotive web pages and high-fidelity sound web
pages and even PC-building web pages (and sewing and boating and health
and home building and so on) that document to the minutest detail how to
accomplish success in creating something beloved by their creators.
What I ask for is nothing new or unprecedented.  MediaWiki apparently
has yet to garner such reverence and joy, at least on this list,
apparently.  MediaWiki is supposedly open source ... well?

-- Peter Blaise


> Ian wrote: ... I followed the instructions. 
... [link?!?]
> It worked. If you want a keystroke-by-
> keystroke log of what I did, well, I didn't 
> create one.  If you want me to go through 
> the whole process again and record 
> everything, I can do that, but it would 
> take solid days of work to cover the stuff 
> you want, and that is *way* more effort 
> than I am going to donate to the USPTO 
> for free.  So, do you have a budget to pay 
> for this kind of support?

Peter Blaise responds:

... oh, and you've proven yourself soooo willing to earn it!  ;-)

I KNOW how long it takes.  In the earlier example I quoted of my own
experience, it took approximately 100 times longer to accurately
document any task than it took to perform the task itself in the first
place.  This is no news.  I know that, though what I am asking for is
simple to ask for, it is also very difficult and time consuming to
execute authoritatively.

However, I am not asking you or anybody to support the USPTO, I'm asking
you to support MediaWiki.  You don't have to.  Nobody does.

-- Peter Blaise

PS - The US Trademark Office, by the way is paying-customer-driven,
law-driven, and public (no tax-payer revenues here!).  You're welcome to
anything we create - none of our contractors own anything they design
for us or for our customers!  The US Patent Office (unrelated to the US
Trademark Office, really) may be secret to protect patent applicants, I
dunno nor care.  Trademark applications and processes are public record
from day one.  Private individuals and companies may own the rights to
their programming, and be as secretive as they wanna be.  I do not
control any moneys (or even admin rights) around here, that's why I
built our first MediaWiki prototype on my own USB drive!  But, as I see
it, the only ones spending inordinate time and effort to avoid spending
inordinate time and effort are ... 

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