John:
Thank you very much for the details. This really helps me.
The project I have in mind really can't be done on Wikisource for copyright
reasons. I plan to set up a wiki where I attempt to restrict access to
those participating in the translation. I know that restricting access on a
wiki isn't perfect, but this project isn't so attractive that too many
people are likely to try to break in.
I'm going to have to do some testing to see what will work for my purposes.
Thanks for the details. I really appreciate it.
Kent
At 11:36 PM +1100 12/19/07, you wrote:
Hi Kent,
On Dec 5, 2007 6:19 PM, Kent S. Larsen II <kent(a)lusobraz.com> wrote:
Has anyone set up a wiki for making collaborative translations from one
language to another?
The English, French and German Wikisource permit and encourage
translations. We recommend that the original is placed on the
appropriate sub-domain. I cant speak for the other language
sub-domains; the proposed/defacto guideline for the English says that
all these translation are collaborative so that nobody can get their
nose out of joint when it is updated by others. i.e. attribution
shouldnt be placed on the main article page; it is in the history, and
major contributors can be mentioned on the talk page. This is also to
ensure that Wikisource is not seen as a publisher -- if someone wants
traditional attribution and accolades for their translation, they
should be submitting it to a peer-reviewed journal, or book publisher.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Translations
An incomplete list of translations into English can be found here:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Category:Wikisource_translations
More translations can probably be found in the GFDL category, as the
GFDL license is usually only used for modern works, and translations
are one of the few types of modern works that are acceptable on
Wikisource.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Category:GFDL
Each language sub-domain of Wikisource is free to set up their own
guidelines and policies, so other languages may not accept
translations. I have asked that other sub domain projects fill in the
"translations" row of this table:
http://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:Subdomains_coordination
Ideally, I'd like something like
traduwiki.org, but I'd prefer something
based on MediaWiki instead of pmWiki that traduwiki is based on.
It is trivial to set up a wiki with the text to be translated on one page,
and the result on another (or on a subpage).
The difficulty comes when the source and result are side by side.
Wikisource is using an extension to show pages from two different
sub-domains on the same page.
http://wikisource.org/wiki/Wikisource:DoubleWiki_Extension
One of our better examples can be seen here:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Singer_(Pushkin)?match=ru
Typically, the headers on each sub-domain are different, resulting in
the combined view being unappealing. Here are a few showing the
original and translation malaligned:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Second_Manifesto?match=fr
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Tell_me,_Tell?match=sr
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Catullus_27?match=la
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Protest_of_Zofia_Kossak-Szczucka?match=pl
I have seen one solution -- putting the source
document into the page as an
image. But this is also less than ideal, IMO.
We also do this, where the original is not a separate sub-domain, like
this Middle English translation:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Balade_to_Rosemounde
On Dec 19, 2007 12:16 AM, Kent S. Larsen II <kent(a)lusobraz.com> wrote:
Turns out that the Proofread Page extension can be used for this.
Apparently, Proofread Page is used on Wikisource for proofing scans and
entering text from images.
What I'm not completely sure about is whether or not it is easy to use it
for material that is already text (that needs to be translated to a new
language). Does anyone here have any experience with this extension?
The Proofread Page extension is useful for collaborative transcribing
and proof reading, however another benefit is the separation of the
presentation layout (in the main name space) from the original layout.
For example, in addition to having encyclopedia entries on separate
pages:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_New_Student%27s_Reference_Work/Belgrade
the same text can be seen on the page as it appeared in print:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:LA2-NSRW-1-0245.jpg
An index of all of the pages has been created; each page provides a
"^" (up) button at the top of the page, which takes the viewer to:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:The_New_Student%27s_Reference_Work
If I understand correctly, you want to know whether this extension can
be used without images. I haven't seen this done before, but I've
been meaning to experiment with this, as a contributor is currently
working on a book that we dont have page scans for, yet they have
chosen to retain the original page layout; see the page numbers here:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_Iowa/Volume_4/TOC
As a test, I have moved the first two pages into the Page namespace,
and created an index, and the extension doesn't appear to mind that
there are no images.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Index:History_of_Iowa/Volume_4
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:History_of_Iowa_From_the_Earliest_Times_…
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:History_of_Iowa_From_the_Earliest_Times_…
(note the navigational arrows at the very top, near the "page" tab.)
Pages can then be split into multiple articles, using another
extension that allows inclusion of sections.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_Iowa/Austin_Adams
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/History_of_Iowa/Charles_H._Abbot
More information about these extensions can be found here:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Help:Side_by_side_image_view_for_proofreading
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:Labeled_Section_Transclusion
--
John Mark Vandenberg (User:Jayvdb)
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