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<p>P.S.: For the record, I've now noted my opposition on the
discussion page. Maybe, that's not how LangCom members are
supposed to interact with proposals. However, the discussion on
mg:wb is not a *community* discussion. The proposal was created by
a speaker of Farsi in Iran, and apart from Jagwar, no other
discussion participant seems to be a speaker of Malagasy. If you
want me to give some evidence of my relation to the Malagasy
language (apart from being a LangCom member), I have been a
participant of the Africa Union's "Operational and Planning
Workshop
for the Kiswahili and Malagasy Vehicular Cross-Border Language
Commissions in East Africa<span lang="en-GB">, 24-26 August 2011,
Nairobi, Kenya</span>", so I know something about the struggle
of non-Western national languages to get a voice and a
representation. Jagwar's efforts on Malagasy Wikibooks should not
be treated as "absence of content" but they deserve our support.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
Oliver<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15-Apr-18 13:08, Oliver Stegen
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:a27b4c2d-9939-b038-25f2-36e5c2cf4b49@sil.org">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
<p>I am also against closing mg:wb, i.e. transferring it to the
incubator. I don't read the outcome of the discussion as a
"unanimous" advice to LangCom to lock the project. There really
is only one strong support for closure, one weak (and very
apologetic!) support and then there's is Jagwar, the only
consistently active user at mg:wb, who sounds more resigned to
his lone stance without support for his efforts. I've looked at
the content, and especially the pages on explaining Python
(granted, seven sections may not make a complete book) are an
excellent example of how to go about WikiBooks in a LWC
(language of wider communication). While I agree that *absence*
of content since wiki creation would be a reason for closure, I
don't see *absence* of content. Those seven sections on Python
(I've counted the four pages of Python/Teny as one section) are
content enough for me to allow mg:wb to continue at its project
site.</p>
<p>Cheers,<br>
Oliver<br>
</p>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15-Apr-18 10:57, Gerard Meijssen
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAO53wxW3QbjFhfaCKhS-us7jcHjPYYZhjvNMyKPm=C7jrEp5=A@mail.gmail.com">
<div dir="ltr">Hoi,
<div>I am against.</div>
<div>Thanks,</div>
<div> GerardM</div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On 15 April 2018 at 10:47,
MarcoAurelio <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:strigiwm@gmail.com" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">strigiwm@gmail.com</a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr">Hello. If I am allowed, I'd like to signal
that the community advices LangCom to lock the project
unanimously in the PCP page, not for inactivity (which
indeed is not a valid reason) but for absence of content
since the wiki creation, which it is a valid reason per
policy to do so. Regards, M.</div>
<div class="HOEnZb">
<div class="h5">
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">2018-04-11 8:22 GMT+02:00
Oliver Stegen <span dir="ltr"><<a
href="mailto:oliver_stegen@sil.org"
target="_blank" moz-do-not-send="true">oliver_stegen@sil.org</a>></span>:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
<p>I'm happy with the action that Steven took,
including the recent re-opening of the
discussion (for clarity's sake). LangCom
appointed him clerk for the kind of activity
which he brings to the table (and for which
LangCom members' activity like mine are too
sporadic to make LangCom effective - see
multiple complaints over the years).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>Closing projects policy was revised after
our May 2011 meeting exactly so that "<span
style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:sans-serif;font-size:14px;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;display:inline!important;float:none">closing
a project is no longer easier than opening
one</span>". In the case of Malagasy
Wikibooks, I vote for rejecting the proposal
to close precisely because inactivity alone
is not a sufficient reason for closure.
There's no harm in keeping it open, and it
would be more work to close it (if I
understand matters correctly).</p>
<p><br>
</p>
<p>In the hope that this can be re-resolved
quickly (and without yet more bureaucracy),<br>
Oliver<br>
</p>
<div>
<div class="m_4284120631935571393h5">
<p><br>
</p>
<br>
<div
class="m_4284120631935571393m_4414387168066765486moz-cite-prefix">On
10-Apr-18 23:14, Steven White wrote:<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="m_4284120631935571393h5">
<div
id="m_4284120631935571393m_4414387168066765486divtagdefaultwrapper"
style="font-size:12pt;color:#000000;font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif"
dir="ltr">
<p
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Look,
I'm not trying to make trouble, nor
to ramrod my opinions. With thanks
to members who supported my
approach, I am going to revert the
closure of the discussion. </p>
<p
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Before
I do that, I will just point out
that I think I have followed the
rules up to this point. Gerard's
willingness to agree to the closure
happened in March, while we were
still in a discussion phase. He did
not comment afterwards, so I
wouldn't have characterized what he
did as negating my proposal. I do
think it is within my purview as
clerk to put a proposal on the
table. If I stretched a point of
the rules at all, it was to
hypothesize that a "discussion"
during which only one member
comments is not sufficient to
establish a committee consensus to
close an existing project,
particularly when its only real
problem is inactivity. But maybe
that's not correct; that needs to be
discussed.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">I
would also point out to Marco that
per policy, the community's role in
such matters is advisory, not
binding. Whether or not it should
apply to this particular case, the
Board and LangCom have expressed a
general point of view that they
would rather keep projects open than
to close them, provided that the
project is not full of vandalism. So
while the community does seem to
support the closure, LangCom need
not follow the community's advice,
although it certainly may do so.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><a
href="https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Closing_projects_policy"
class="m_4284120631935571393m_4414387168066765486OWAAutoLink"
id="m_4284120631935571393m_4414387168066765486LPlnk254525"
target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Closing
projects policy</a> normally does
not involve an actual vote; it is
supposed to close on consensus.
Again, my perspective is that a
consensus discussion to close a
project that is not vandalized
requires more than one voice. If
members disagree, then please say
so. (And I'd point out that
frequently we allow a single voice
to mark a project request as
"eligible" or "rejected"; I just
think existing projects deserve a
little stronger benefit of the
doubt.) So let's let this run for at
least another week, to April 17, and
see what else people have to say
about it.</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0">Steven</p>
<p
style="margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0"><br>
</p>
<div
id="m_4284120631935571393m_4414387168066765486Signature">
<p>Sent from <a
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id="m_4284120631935571393m_4414387168066765486LPNoLP" target="_blank"
moz-do-not-send="true">Outlook</a><br>
</p>
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